Dark Sun 4e: Can it work?

[Mark Hope]

The cover of the Amber Enchantress, front and back.

Ah, right. Heh, no idea what that guy is supposed to be. It could well be Magnus (the mutated elf) but I can't remember what he looked like. For some reason I always thought it was a fat nikaal, but it doesn't really look like a nikaal either, now I come to think of it. Mind you, there are plenty of pictures of races and creatures that look like all sorts of kooky monsters not in any of the books, so "mutated human" is a great catch-all to cover them all.

 

[Klaus]

Ah, right. Heh, no idea what that guy is supposed to be. It could well be Magnus (the mutated elf) but I can't remember what he looked like. For some reason I always thought it was a fat nikaal, but it doesn't really look like a nikaal either, now I come to think of it. Mind you, there are plenty of pictures of races and creatures that look like all sorts of kooky monsters not in any of the books, so "mutated human" is a great catch-all to cover them all.

So that's my notion for any race the DM wants to put in: it's a mutated "insert Athasian race here", take the stats of the desired creature and presto! You don't need to include tribes of orcs, gnomes, goblins or whatnot. They'd be one-of-a-kind (or very small groups) things. The post-apocalyptic nature of Athas, almost bordering on sword-and-planet literature, lends itself well to these "mutations".

 

[NilesB]

Plus, they're made of chitin, bones and obsidian. They would be prime targets for humanoid tribes willing to take them apart to make armor, weapons and tools.

As opposed to the other PC races that are made of leather, food and bone?

 

[I'm A Banana]

For me, it's kind of a matter of "what do you want to do?"

Do you want to just update Dark Sun? Or do you just want to apply DS flavor to all of 4e's bits. Where do you start: with the 2e boxed set, or with the 4e PH?

I'm a bit of a fan of DS, so here's what I would do, using the model of the FR. The Campaign Guide would have discussions with the DM about what is "appropriate," including pointing out specific things in the PH that were changed to the Player's Guide for DS Flavor Purposes. More encouraging of the DM to change things than to ban them, and open to new input from new books. A few "Guidelines":

1. The Fey Are Dead. No gnomes, no eladrin, no pixies or nymphs or feywild or misty castles or inscrutable fey of any shape. Replace fey with elementals and creatures from the Elemental Chaos. Consider changing the origin of fey who don't give off a strong "otherworldly" vibe (such as Fomorians).
2. Magic Is Broken. There are no default Wizards or Warlocks, they all have alternate features. Warlocks are defilers, Wizards are preservers, and all of them require you to sacrifice HP to power your spells (Warlocks can sacrifice others', Wizards can only sacrifice their own). The reason for the class division is because of the flavor difference between Warlocks (selfish, tricky, damaging magic) and Wizards (weaker but broader magic with an elemental focus). There are no "magical" races or classes. Use psonics instead, in most situations.
3. Technology is Stone-Age. Weapons and armor are made from alternate materials. This is almost purely a flavor adjustment, but is something to keep in mind.
4. The Gods Have Abandoned You. Divine classes are replaced by Primal classes (just as Arcane classes are replaced by Psionic classes). In general, this just means you need to change a keyword or two.
5. Walking Can Kill You. DS makes rules for food, water, and endurance important. This is mostly New Rules territory -- since the core doesn't include anything like Create Food and Drink anymore, we don't really need to remove anything, just add consequences.

The Player's Guide
RACES

1. We don't NEED dragonborn. Eladrin, Tieflings, and Half-Elves are downright inappropriate. If anyone wants to add them make them do the work to do it (or maybe give a brief paragraph of "importing new races"). The Tiefling's schtick: "Intelligent and Charismatic spellcaster" isn't really appropriate for DS PC's. Neither is the Half-Elf schtick of "Between Two Worlds." This is a setting of brutal, physical, uncomompromising beings -- we don't need any PC's being fancy-pants nancy boys or peacemakers.
2. New Races. This is assuming there is room for two, I'd pick Thri-kreen and Half-Giant. Half-Giants take the Dragonborn role of being the bruisers. Thri-kreen take the Eladrin role of being the "mobile" race.
3. Existing Races: Discuss Athasian Elves, Athasian Dwarves, and Athasian Halflings. These can grant different racial powers (Athasian Elves might have an Endurance ability, Athasian Dwarves might have a Focus ability, Athasian Halflings might have a poison-related ability).
4. Supporting Cast: Discuss "monstrous" PC options that might be common. Muls, Aarakocra, Pterran, Lizardfolk, Gith; here might be a good place for that paragraph about Dragonborn.

CHARACTER CLASSES

1. Base assumption: all PH classes are "packages of abilities," not ardent archetypes. This may require re-working a few abilities, but I'd rather provide alternate abilities than brand new classes.
2. New Class: That said, yes, Athas needs a new class. I nominate a psionic class -- wilder or psychic warrior, assuming those aren't already done in a psionic HB. This shows off DS's big "no magic, but psionics!" schtick pretty well.
3. Existing Classes: Fighters gain a Gladiator build. Warlocks gain a Defiler build. Wizards gain a Preserver build. Clerics and Paladins gain an Elementalist build. Warlords gain a Templar build. These will switch around some proficiencies, and require some alternate class features (and perhaps some higher-level powers, too). Gladiators don't have heavy armor but have buckets o' HP. Defilers gain extra power when they are around living things (that then die). Preservers gain extra power when they make a sacrifice. Elementalists don't use Radiant damage, they use elemental damage (fire, acid, thunder, lightning). Elemental paladins should have a replacement ability for their Challenge, because the "brave knight" schtick doesn't work here. Templars might have some similarities to Warlocks in some of the class features. And don't forget the psionics.
4. Paragon Paths: Probably at least one new path per class, and one per race, just to sprinkle some DS flavor here and there. Also mix in some psionic ones.
5. Epic Destinies: Sorcerer-kings, here we come.

BACKGROUNDS, FEATS, RITUALS, DAILY LIFE, ETC.

1. This is a great place to include common PC regions and the backgrounds that they may have.
2. Racial feats for the new races
3. Whatever iconic DS magic doesn't work best in combat goes into Rituals
4. Flavor Load with the rest

 

[Klaus]

I don't agree with the "no fey" thing. Since Dark Sun has always had "Spirits of the Land", druids and their ilk, I think *some* fey, tied to the few green oases of the Tyr region, could work. Specially since you could have fey that looked like the Tooth Fairies from Hellboy II (think flying piranha).

And Half-Elves wouldn't be "between two worlds" in a positive sense, but in a negative one, shunned by both sides of his heritage. OTOH, they'd make perfect Dune Traders.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't agree with the "no fey" thing. Since Dark Sun has always had "Spirits of the Land", druids and their ilk, I think *some* fey, tied to the few green oases of the Tyr region, could work. Specially since you could have fey that looked like the Tooth Fairies from Hellboy II (think flying piranha).

Well, 4e is exception-based rules, so if the rule is "No Fey," the exception is, "Except for those rare sacred oases that Defilers have never touched."

I think the assumption should be that the PC's won't be coming across an oasis like that, and if they do, it should be an anomaly. No PC should be able to look at that and be jaded about it or familiar with it -- this is high weirdness. The feeling of grass beneath your feet shouldn't be a sensation that many have experienced before.

To help reinforce that, DS shouldn't have a real Feywild connection, not enough so that PC's are from it, not enough so that low-level monsters are from it. But note that I did point out that not all fey are inappropriate. Instead of the Fomorians being from the Feydark, they're from the Elemental Chaos. The tooth fairies aren't from some inscrutable magical Otherworld, they're a natural creature that has adapted Athas as a homeworld. Spirits of the land, sure, but these are elemental spirits of raw physical power, not ethereal dancing sugar-plum fairies.

And Half-Elves wouldn't be "between two worlds" in a positive sense, but in a negative one, shunned by both sides of his heritage. OTOH, they'd make perfect Dune Traders.

Positive or negative, Athas is not a good place to be "between two worlds." The elves are specifically very xenophobic, and the blending of an elf and any other creature should be so rare as to be truly exotic. Again, no PC should expect to be that. With the archetype in general, DS is a place of very definitive strength, from my understanding. Someone who is in a state of being between things, with several small strengths rather than truly definitive power, is naturally selected against, to the point where they would become extinct. Or at least not encouraged as a race common enough to warrant an entry in the player's guide.

The perfect Dune Trader archetype, in my mind, is just an elf -- a swift runner who covers long distances and has, for one reason or another, lost the insular protection of the tribe. This establishes a community of "outcast elves" in the setting that the PC can belong to or liberate or otherwise work with. This makes an insular race more suited for PC's (because they actually do go out and encounter foreign things).

With the Fey and the Half-Elves and the like, it certainly isn't that you can't have them. It's that they're generally inappropriate (from my understanding). And they're also unnecessary. Thus, they don't need to be encouraged with an official page or so devoted to them. Devote a sentence to speculation in an "Importing New Races" section if they feel the need to address it at all. But I don't believe it needs to be addressed. The default question for someone wanting to be an Eladrin or a Half-Elf on Athas should be "Why?" It's like playing a happy-go-lucky tinker gnome in Ravenloft. You're missing the point. You should be encouraged to play something different. Don't try to fit the square peg in the round hole, just get a round peg.

 

[Staffan]

The Fey Are Dead. No gnomes, no eladrin, no pixies or nymphs or feywild or misty castles or inscrutable fey of any shape. Replace fey with elementals and creatures from the Elemental Chaos. Consider changing the origin of fey who don't give off a strong "otherworldly" vibe (such as Fomorians).

Maybe no pixies and probably no Feywild (it doesn't fit the limited Athasian cosmology), but no fey at all? No!

There are plenty of DS monsters that make excellent sense as fey. Belgoi, pyreen, and sand brides/mothers all make sense as fey IMO.

We don't NEED dragonborn. Eladrin, Tieflings, and Half-Elves are downright inappropriate. [...] Neither is the Half-Elf schtick of "Between Two Worlds."

Half-elves have been part of Dark Sun from the start, and one of the setting's "faces" was a half-elf (Sadira). Now, the "diplomat" schtick won't work - DS half-elves were always loners, and got bonuses in surviving on their own. Still, that would only be a matter of switching the skill bonuses to Nature and maybe Streetwise.

New Races. This is assuming there is room for two, I'd pick Thri-kreen and Half-Giant. Half-Giants take the Dragonborn role of being the bruisers. Thri-kreen take the Eladrin role of being the "mobile" race.

I think Mul would work better as a bruiser race. It's a lot easier to handle having one around than a half-giant, and you don't have to get into the whole "But half-giants ARE Large, they SHOULD be more powerful." Half-giants in Dark Sun fill more-or-less the same role as ogres in other settings, except they're more integrated into society.

 

[D.Shaffer]

*shrug* To me, the Fey are nature made manifest. They're anthropormophic incarnations of the land itself. Nothing about Dark Sun rules out fey at all, it just will be of a more unforgiving, nasty type of fey to match the more hostile natural surroundings of the area. Pixie dust, butterfly wings, and dancing with travellers? No.

Nasty, pointy toothed, giggling THINGS using illusions of water to lead people into the dryest parts of the desert to die of thirst? Blood Cactus dryads killing off travelers to feed their groves? A sand, rock, and blistering sun based fey lord that demands sacrifice but provides water for a local oasis? The twisted, shriveled, undead remnants of something that 'protects' Defiled land? They'd all work well, IMO.

The actual feywild? Maybe. Considering the feywild is supposed to be a more 'Extreme' form of the natural surroundings, it might actually work out OK. Maybe not as a complete plane in itself, but as a limited form of demiplane tied to certain areas?