D&D 4E Dark Sun Conversion to 4E

[smathis]

How about Defiling allows a spellcaster to "recharge" a power?

Defiling itself is a minor action that does what we all know Defiling does.

On the first round, the caster rolls a d6. On a roll of 6, his powers do some sort of recharge (like the monsters get).

If he fails the roll, the next round the area of defiling grows by one. On a roll of 5 or 6, the recharge happens.

If he fails that rolls, the next round the area of defiling grows by one more (now a Burst 3) and the recharge occurs on a 4-6.

I think that would make Defiling very attractive.

Or maybe this can be just one in a suite of Defiling abilities. Others could boost the damage of a spell or increase the range or other metamagicky type stuff.

Basically, defiling becomes a suite of abilities that allow spellcasters to recharge and modify the spells they cast.

it seems we were collectively headed in this direction. But I don't think Defiling has to necessarily be just one thing. Maybe it can do a number of things.

But by default, PC spellcasters are Preservers. Fair enough, and those spellcasters don't get ganked.

Thoughts?

 

[Danzauker]

Thoughts?

Overall I agree. As I said, I'll wait to have the rules in hand to decide exactly how I want defiling to be implemented in play, but I agree that's the correct direction.

 

[Dausuul]

Could be, but I would not "transfer" all the mechanics of defiling on rituals.

One of the biggest mistakes in the revision of DS was putting the mechanics of defiling at memorization time (they must have realized that because they got back offering that option with Preservers and Defilers).

Let's admit it, the concept of drawing your energy from the plants in the midst of casting is much cooler more interesting.

Oh, I wasn't proposing to make defiling be only for rituals. Defilers should destroy plants any time they use their magic, in or out of combat. I was just pointing out that ritual magic is one place where defilers can be given a hefty power boost without adversely affecting gameplay.

 

[pawsplay]

I think you can simply have defling be an option to gain a power boost, with the disadvantage that there are diminishing returns.... areas could be classified as scorched, defiled, devastated, or lifeless, for instance.

One aspect that is rarely touched on is that in the books, wizards sometimes used animal life force for spellcasting, either drawing their own or using it almost as an attack.

The big question I have is... psionics?

 

[Danzauker]

I think you can simply have defling be an option to gain a power boost, with the disadvantage that there are diminishing returns.... areas could be classified as scorched, defiled, devastated, or lifeless, for instance.

One aspect that is rarely touched on is that in the books, wizards sometimes used animal life force for spellcasting, either drawing their own or using it almost as an attack.

The big question I have is... psionics?

The canon material states that only epic level caster, such as the Dragon, could fuel their spells from animal life force.

Usually lower level casters could cause pain to animals and humanoids, which if I recall correctly was implemented with some initiative penalty.

 

[Evilhalfling]

In the descriptions of defiling the advantages were that preserving took more time, and defiling could be used to provide more power. If we want to keep preservers as the default for PCs then preserving should be the standard.

Since making defiling faster would really mess-up game balance, the best mechanic would seem to be a constant ability on the order of the defiler gets a +1 or +2 to all magical attack rolls. Preservers would have the option of doing this as well, but someone who is on the defiler path should not be able to cast spells without it.

We also need to deal with the lack of implaments - or just say that the spell component pouch is the defalult implament. Spell components were monitered and the black market methods used to refill them seem like a big part of the setting.

I think Dragonborn can be traded straight for thirkreen, in the place they hold in the setting. Although some of there breath powers will need changing, along with any links to the dragon color wheel.

There have been a bunch of good suggestions for psionics, I think waiting for better rules is needed before I can judge between them.

 

[ve4grm]

Since making defiling faster would really mess-up game balance, the best mechanic would seem to be a constant ability on the order of the defiler gets a +1 or +2 to all magical attack rolls. Preservers would have the option of doing this as well, but someone who is on the defiler path should not be able to cast spells without it.

So, um...

If I might suggest a solution for defiling? Every Wizard gets the following ability:

Defile - Wizard Utility 1
At-Will * Arcane
Free Action - Personal
Effect: The next spell you cast gets a +2 on the attack roll, and a +2 on damage.
Additionally, all plant life within 2 squares of you is destroyed.
Until you save, every time you cast a spell, the plant life within 2 squares is destroyed again, with no benefit gained.

(If you wanted to be evil, you could require that the caster move if no plant life exists and they haven't saved, or the spell fizzles. I would at least require that they be in a natural environment with vegetation around.)

?

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4166508&postcount=38

 

[Irda Ranger]

Since making defiling faster would really mess-up game balance, the best mechanic would seem to be a constant ability on the order of the defiler gets a +1 or +2 to all magical attack rolls.

"Doing something faster" is another way of saying "using an Action Point", because it allows you more actions per round. I think that's a good way to handle it. You can also simulate "more power" by allowing Daily Powers to be used Per Encounter, and Per Encounter powers At Will. Although I reserve full judgment until I see the full rules, I think it would look like this:

Defile - Wizard Power 1
At-Will * Arcane
Free Action - Personal
Effect: You gain a Defiling Point which must be spent that round. Spend the Defiling Point either as an Action Point or to reduce a Daily Power to Encounter or an Encounter Power as At-Will. A Daily or Encounter Power used without the benefit of a Defiling Point is lost as normal and cannot be used even with the benefit of a Defiling Point until you have rested.
Side Effect 1: All plant life within a 1-square Burst around you is destroyed. If you are already standing within a Burst (of any size) it expands one further square. The rate of further expansion is modified by the Arability Table.
Side Effect 2: Increase your Taint Counter by 1 each time you use this Power. (Effects of Taint t.b.d, but there will definitely be an addiction quality - IR)


I'm really not concerned about game balance because I do not intend to allow PCs to be full-blown Defilers. That's a one-way ticket to the Rogues Gallery (aka, being an NPC), like giving in fully to the Dark Side of the Force. Basically this is just a rule-set Wizard PCs can draw on very, very rarely - and possibly at the cost of being kicked out the group. Defilers are universally abhorred.

We also need to deal with the lack of implaments - or just say that the spell component pouch is the defalult implament. Spell components were monitered and the black market methods used to refill them seem like a big part of the setting.

Who said there are no implements? I think this would be a great addition to the setting (wands of tooth and bone, staves from rare trees, obsidian orbs), and a chance to choose new implements, like skull-on-a-stick or weird masks. Control over the spell component market is about controlling access to Rituals.

I think Dragonborn can be traded straight for thirkreen, in the place they hold in the setting. Although some of there breath powers will need changing, along with any links to the dragon color wheel.

There are several lizard-like PC races already. Leave thri-kreen as monsters and let Dragonborn rules get a Pterran or Dray label slapped on them.

 

[Kirnon_Bhale]

My take on how I feel defilers should work.

Arcane Power Source Feature

Defile
Encounter*Free Action
Special: Must be used in conjunction with an Arcane Power
Effect: The Arcane Power can be used as a Minor Action.
Secondary Effect
Burst(Spell Level)
Effect: Vegetation in the burst is destroyed. Living Vegetation is granted a save to resist or take 2d4 damage.


I think that this encompasses the fluff regarding defilers being able to cast spells quicker it also covers the increase in spell level, it is very tempting to use because you could with action points cast 3 spells in a round and you have an additional effect against sentient plants. On top of that it takes into account the increased Arcane power by basing the burst off the Power level.

I also think that possibly at Paragon level a stun effect for powers of Paragon level should be included for non-vegetation and once you get to epic you should have the damage to vegetation increase to 3d4 and animals take 2d4 to power epic level powers.

I don't think it is game breaking look at dwarves being able to use minor actions for second wind instead of standard. I also think that it will make players think especially with paragon and epic powers as with such a wide burst they are almost guaranteed to hit allies with the power. Thus you have a decent trade off in the Arcane Classes.

 

[breschau]

Considering that you only get 2 at-will powers throughout your entire career, defiling should not be an at-will power. Plus, considering you can only use one power per round without using an action point, you literally couldn't defile without burning an AP. That's ridiculous.

Defiling should be a class feature of the wizard. Every wizard can defile, and every wizard can preserve...

Wow. What about burning a healing surge to preserve? That's tempting. Say you sack a healing surge and that fuels a number of spells equal to the hp it would have healed. That way you don't have to sack one per spell, you are limited, and it makes defiling really tempting.

This goes with the novels as the preserver magic was often described as draining the caster. Also, this could be part of a path or destiny, taking a healing surge from a target creature to fuel casting. This works for the idea of the transformation as well. Kalak had to sacrifice a stadium full of people to advance.