D&D 5E Dark Sun doesn't actually need Psionics

[Shiroiken]

Can you do it? Yes. Should you do it? Absolutely not.

Magic is unusual in Dark Sun. Divine magic mostly only exists through the will of the Sorcerer Kings, with the rare halfling druid as the exception. Arcane magic is what destroyed the world, and its use is generally despised by most. This leaves Psionics as the third alternative to "magic." By removing it, you force the players to either work for the Sorcerer Kings or hide their abilities completely. Since working against the Sorcerer Kings is part of the common theme of Dark Sun, by removing Psionics you remove a fundamental aspect of the setting. I don't even like Dark Sun and I know this.

 

[briggart]

DS main theme to me has always been survival in a hostile environment and the moral compromises that requires. The fact that the harsh environment comes partially from magic use is largely irrelevant. After all, the first environmental catastrophe on Athas was caused by life-shaping well before magic was invented, and fixing this significantly altered the world. Having defiling magic in is interesting because it offers some interesting moral dilemmas: I have this useful tool, but it comes with a long term cost, not necessarily to myself. But the key question "my survival vs others wellbeing" is not dependent on this.

Likewise, psionics doesn't change the central theme of DS, but shifts the ways in which you can explore it. Psionics is the "natural" supernatural option. After the rebirth, some races started manifesting psionics ability. Arcane magic instead was invented. If you assume that preservers are always in danger to be defilers (I think this was introduced in the novel, not in the 2e RPG), having psionics in the campaign makes defiling more evil, and preserving at the very least irresponsible. There is a safe alternative to most of what magic can do. Without psionics, there is no such option, and this changes the risk-vs-benefit balance of magic use. IMO this gives a subtle, but noticeable tonal shift to the setting. The general populace would be more willing to allow preserving without psionics, because some things simply will not be possible without magic.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

No matter how different from magic they are, being able to blow stuff up with your brain falls under the "supernatural" umbrella.

No, no, no. Magic and psionics are different. Really. Like psionics is using your brain to do stuff. Not like wizards. Wait, no, psionics is something innate to you. Not like sorcerers. No, no, let me try again. Psionics is like a mutation. You only get it from being exposed to some weird outside influence. Not like warlocks. Or psionics is like... well, you know, an eggplant. And magic is an aubergine. Completely different.

 

[Charlaquin]

This is going to end up like the Greyhawk threads where no one can define what elements are actually necessary for the campaign setting.

I think the only truly necessary elements for Dark Sun are "harsh desert world", and "magic defiles the land".

But I would put psionics in the second tier with Sorcerer Kings, city-states, muls, thri-kreen, cannibal halflings, scumbag elves, no gods, etc. All the elements that aren't strictly necessary, but contribute to the overall tapestry.

I’d put Sorcerer Kings, city states, and maybe no gods above the others here. Sorcerer Kings and city states are a big part of the class conflict theme. No gods doesn’t directly tie into the major themes in a way that is obvious to me, but it does strengthen the theme of magic being a corrupting force by eliminating divine magic as a safe casting option, and it’s a very important tonal element.

 

[Charlaquin]

Hm. So, who wonders if maybe they won't just rehash this, but double down on it, given current realities?

It wouldn’t surprise me. I’d love it if while they were at it, they took steps to characterize preservers as well-meaning but ultimately ineffectual so long as the systems that allowed the Sorcerer Kings to come to power remain in place. Move past the outdated notion of environmental activism as an individual responsibility and towards a more nuanced view.

But that would surprise me.

 

[Charlaquin]

I actually fully agree with the thesis that Psionics don't add to the most important theme in Dark Sun, which is the environment. In fact, I think having an alternate power source that doesn't clearly have downsides in either effect or raw power level weakens those themes. At the same time, the tension around defiling is not the only part of the setting and Dark Sun as "weird fantasy" is very well served by the presence of psionics.

What does this mean mechanically? I honestly think getting "Defiling vs. Preserving" right is still more fundamentally important than psionics. At the same time, for psionics to hit that "weird fantasy" it actually needs that mechanically reinforced - I think you could get that done through subclasses, but I'm not totally certain.

I think to do right by both the environmentalist themes and the Weird Fantasy tone, it would be best to dump the idea of The Way and double down on the weird aspect of Psionics. Make it too wild and unpredictable to actually serve as a safe alternative to magic. Sure, Psionics can be incredibly powerful, but you can’t exactly rely on the whims of random mutation to produce any particular desired effect. With discipline and training, you can learn to strengthen and hone your psionic gifts, but you have the powers you have. A telepath can learn to use their telepathy in new ways, and strengthen it like a muscle, but they’ll never practice themselves into learning pyrokenesis. That’s just not the mutation they were born with.

 

[Maxperson]

Dark Sun requires Psionics. Without it, all you have is a post apocalyptic setting that is similar to Dark Sun. That can be fun, but it's not going to be Dark Sun.

 

[Maxperson]

Would it though? Could it not be replaced by some other calamity, such as the destruction of the Sun? Or the war between the Gods and the Primordials? What matters is that Dark Sun is a harsh dying planet. Is arcane magic needed to those ends anymore than psionics is for the setting?

Sure, but at that point you have some other post-apocalyptic setting. Not Dark Sun. You can create any number of cool post-apocalyptic settings, Dark Sun being just one of them, and one which heavily involves psionics.

 

[bulletmeat]

I see Psionics as part of the theme of Dark Sun; the external sources of power (arcane magic of wizards, godly influence to clerics) are failing or have failed so one must turn inward to find that power (way of the mind for psionics, the inner planes vs the outer planes for clerics, being more concious of your magic use for perservers). The environment will not assist you, you must do it yourself.

Now mechanically in 5e things can easily be reskinned:
half-orc = Mul
Sorcerer = psionicist with the bloodlines being diciplines
Warlock = Templar
Perserver = wizard who has to pay 10% xp per level to 'keep it clean'.
etc.

Mechanically Dark Sun does not need psionics. But also, Star Wars does not need the force or the Jedi. There is a lot of room for adventure without it (in fact the galaxy would probably be better off w/out it). But it would not 'feel' the same, at least for one whose Thri-Kreen Psionicist was failed a save vs. the giant choking me in that dang sea of silt. You could also add other stuff. I can add a Dragonborn to Dark Sun just as easily as I can add a Vulcan to Star Wars. But the vision, the intent of the setting seems to become watered down, less unique.

And would it be easier to take psionics away vs. everyone using their own rules to add it in?

 

[Aldarc]

It also helps to center the dichotomy between arcane magic (dangerous, but compelling if controlled) and divine magic (service to the land itself).

Thinking about this further, I don't think that the dichotomy is particularly useful and is somewhat internally undermined already as there are several dichotomies in place: i.e., divine/primal magic vs. arcane magic and preserving magic vs. defiling magic. This latter, in particular, much as several other people in the latter pages say, kinda undermines the former dichotomy. Preserving magic feels like the creators throwing arcane magic players a bone - much like elemental clerics - but it's one that also one that seemingly runs counter to the themes of the setting: magic destroys the world. Preserving magic comes across as "safe fossil fuels."

Dark Sun doesn't need psionics, but it would be a shame to have the setting without them. It's been a cornerstone of the setting since it was created, to just release it without them would be a little sad and wouldn't quite have that dark sun feeling for me.

Yeah, Van Gogh's "Starry Night" doesn't need a church, a big tree, or a moon to simply be a starry night, but their presence makes the work of "Starry Night" what it is and contributes to the richness of the art piece.