Dark Sun + Essentials interaction

[Korgoth]

So, how will Dark Sun interact with Essentials? I've gathered up all the sweet Dark Sun stuff now (well, the Free RPG module and the 3 commercial products). I've got the Red Box but that doesn't do much beyond what it is in itself.

Suppose I end up with all the Essentials products. Now I have a couple original 4E products knocking around, but let's set that aside for the moment. If I just have Essentials, what will be wonky in trying to interact with Dark Sun? Will the Themes still work, or are the Essentials builds not theme-able? Obviously psionics would be Wild Talents only. What else would end up being strange or incompatible or potentially problematic?

 

[Aegeri]

Nothing that I can see except that themes won't really be very compatible with certain essentials characters beyond just being there. Essentials characters like the fighter/thief don't get encounter powers, so I am not sure if they can switch them out for theme powers so they might not be able to get the full benefits. They can still take a PP and ED though, plus get the themes extra encounter power.

But otherwise there won't be much of a conflict, especially for the Warpriest and Mage who have encounter powers anyway.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

There are no obvious interaction problems from what has been previewed. Although the general rules have been getting / are getting some updates errata around the same time as Essentials, that applies to every game, whether or not you use Essentials builds. I seem to remember reading that the designers have said these are only changes they would have implemented with our without Essentials.

As long as Essentials is what the designers have claimed and previewed, it should have no more interaction issues with Dark Sun than the Psionic Power book, or the Tomb of Horrors adventure.

It would be very bad design-fu to release Dark Sun, fully compatible and building on existing 4e rules (e.g. arena fighter build with daily powers and at-wills), and then immediately outdate it by changing the game format. Not impossible, of course, but very bad design, and there is no evidence they are doing that.

In fact, the release of Dark Sun a month before Essentials, with "pre-essentials" stuff like Fighter dailies, is very strong evidence of what WotC has been claiming, which is that Essentials only provides new options and builds, not prevents you from building old ones somehow.

 

[Neverfate]

Dark Sun and Essentials material should be compatible following the core rules of D&D, which is any Power or Utility Power with a level, that belongs to the same class and meets any other prerequisites can be used by the character. An Essentials character could take the Arena Fighter Theme and have access to the the corresponding power structure (which, I believe would be Utilities for a Thief, Knight or Slayer). Likewise, any feats in which a Dark Sun character meets the prerequisite for, they can take from the Essentials line of products.

There has been/is no wonk to the system. A level 2 Thief Rogue (from Essentials) trained in acrobatics and a level 2 Artful Dodger Rogue (From PHB1) trained in Acrobatics can both take the level 2 Utility power Tumble (Prereq being the rogue class, level 2 and train in acrobatics).

Essentials, I think too few realize, is being needlessly played off as some kind new system (I think it was done to drum up sales). Essential characters still have Encounter powers (Power Strike for the Essentials Fighter builds I believe it is called) and still have Daily powers in utilities (any number of the Daily Skill Powers). The structure of the game has barely changed.

 

[shamsael]

I would still get the PHB3 in addition to the essentials books for the Psionic classes. In my opinion, you won't miss not having the Half-Giant (Goliath) from PHB2 very much, and if you feel the Big-Guy role is missing, you can just make the Minotaur more of a central player.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Personally, I think Essentials is missing a big opportunity to tie into Dark Sun.

The Divine Problem
The divine classes don't fit.
Clerics: In 2nd, you had elemental clerics. In essentials, you have cleric domains. If Essentials had Fire, Water, Earth, and Wind domains, you could easily justify playing an elemental cleric in Dark Sun.
Paladin: Very, very much out of flavor for the world.

Missing Essentials
Lack of Leaders: Essentials has (as we know it today) only one leader, Cleric. Warlord, Bard, and Shaman are all very much in flavor for the world. Not one of these classes has an announced Essential build.
Psionics: The other major gap for Essentials + Dark Sun. Psionics is everywhere in the setting. Thus far, we have no knowledge of any psionic Essentials build. If there was an essentials Psion we could probably live without Battlemind and Ardent. As it stands, it's a major hole for the setting.

Thus, 2 of the 8 Essential classes fall completely out of theme for the setting. The lack of a non-divine leader and no psionic support is nearly a death blow for running Essentials Exclusive Dark Sun.

That said, you can easily mix Essentials builds into the setting.

 

[Korgoth]

Maybe the Druid will return to its, um, roots? And have some healing?

I'm not so concerned about the theoretical lack of psionic classes, since I (as a personal problem) hate psionic classes and am happy with just sticking with wild talents anyway.

I guess we'll know more as the Heroes books roll out.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Maybe the Druid will return to its, um, roots? And have some healing?

I'm not so concerned about the theoretical lack of psionic classes, since I (as a personal problem) hate psionic classes and am happy with just sticking with wild talents anyway.

I guess we'll know more as the Heroes books roll out.

Yeah, my guess is we'll see one more "off role" build like the Slayer in the 2nd class/race book. If so, a Leader Druild would fit nicely.

 

[Aegeri]

Yeah, my guess is we'll see one more "off role" build like the Slayer in the 2nd class/race book. If so, a Leader Druild would fit nicely.

All bets are off here with essentials. Just because the previous classes in those roles are X, Y, Z normally it doesn't mean their essentials build will be the same.

 

[Scribble]

Thus, 2 of the 8 Essential classes fall completely out of theme for the setting. The lack of a non-divine leader and no psionic support is nearly a death blow for running Essentials Exclusive Dark Sun.

That said, you can easily mix Essentials builds into the setting.

Well- I'd say anytime you impose a limit, or remove a limit it will change the game...

Saying essentials only IMO is no different then saying no PHBII classes, or no PHBI classes. Lack of certain classes will change how things work.

If you really want the new essentials builds being used, maybe just say when there is an essentials class build availoable default to that, when there isn't use whatever build is available?