Dark Sun Giant PC Race (Built as a Medium Creature)... thoughts?

The core element of the Dark Sun Half-Giant race was being stronger than anyone else could hope to be. This does not deliver on that. +4 STR and racial maximum 22 or bust!

My final product will have to be a bust, then. I might not have succeeded yet, but my efforts are fundamentally constrained by balance. A +4Str/22 max cannot be balanced. I won’t include it. I want my final product to be as balanced as an official product would be. I’ve tried to play to the half giants strength via other mechanics.
 

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My final product will have to be a bust, then. I might not have succeeded yet, but my efforts are fundamentally constrained by balance. A +4Str/22 max cannot be balanced. I won’t include it. I want my final product to be as balanced as an official product would be. I’ve tried to play to the half giants strength via other mechanics.

I understand where you're coming from, but part of the appeal of old school Dark Sun is that it throws standard balance to the winds, with both more powerful PCs and a more dangerous environment filled with tougher monsters to counter them :)
 

I understand where you're coming from, but part of the appeal of old school Dark Sun is that it throws standard balance to the winds, with both more powerful PCs and a more dangerous environment filled with tougher monsters to counter them :)

The old Dark Sun races were not nearly as imbalanced as you claim. The additional power of the setting comes not from imbalanced races but higher starting stats. I still want my half giant balanced within the constraints of this edition and the setting’s tropes.
 

The old Dark Sun races were not nearly as imbalanced as you claim. The additional power of the setting comes not from imbalanced races but higher starting stats. I still want my half giant balanced within the constraints of this edition and the setting’s tropes.

The half-giant was unbalanced even compared to the Dark Sun baseline. That's why I say the STR max in 5E should be 22 rather than 24 :)
 


This is quite similar to my own take.
Medium Humanoid
+2 Str, +2 Con
35 Speed
Giant Build: Count as 1 size larger for grapple and encumbrance
Long-Limbed
Towering Height: prof. in Athletic and Intimidate
 

Cool. Would you mind going into a little more detail about what feels too strong? Also, how does its hunger and disadvantage on Charm based effects factor into your estimation?

Basically they get everything the Goliath gets, plus more stuff.

I don't think the hunger and disadvantage on Charm are a significant downside in a normal campaign (I almost never see rations tracked, so now you just aren't tracking twice as many rations).

Hunger might be more of a factor in a Dark Sun campaign, which is supposed to be harsher and more survival oriented. But in practice, rations and water were still mostly ignored in the few Dark Sun campaigns I was involved in back in 2e.

Disadvantage vs charms is a hindrance, but not much of one. Most half giants aren't going to be a class that has a good Wisdom score or proficient Wisdom save anyway, so they weren't likely to make the save even without disadvantage. (i.e. giving them a penalty to something they were unlikely to be good at in the first place isn't much of a penalty). It can be significant at low levels (when you have a decent chance of saving even if you have a low bonus or penalty), but changes very little at high levels (where DC's get high enough you mostly fail any save you aren't proficient in).

Plus the standard way of dealing with charmed warriors is still the same - be a Frenzied Berserker Barbrian (immunity to charms while raging at lvl 6), or make sure your party has a spellcaster with Calm Emotions prepped. :p

On the other hand, Dark Sun is supposed to have more powerful baseline characters in a harsher environment with less magic and manufactured goods. And presumably a lot of people in that setting would be aware of the Half-Giants vulnerability to charms and prepare accordingly.
 

My final product will have to be a bust, then. I might not have succeeded yet, but my efforts are fundamentally constrained by balance. A +4Str/22 max cannot be balanced. I won’t include it. I want my final product to be as balanced as an official product would be. I’ve tried to play to the half giants strength via other mechanics.

Arako-birdguys can fly at level 1. Rangers are just underpowered compared to paladins. Non-variant humans are crap compared to the Half Elf. This is a game that assumes a 6-8 encounter day, which basically no one runs, to balance out the short rest vs long rest classes. Most foes in the monster manual are complete pushovers. 5th edition is barely balanced as is. I refuse to believe that a 22 strength and large size cannot be balanced "close enough" for D&D work. You unbalance the game more by handing out a +1 weapon.

My off the cuff take would be +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity and Charisma. Disadvantage vs. charm saves. Able to use large simple weapons. Natural AC of 13+Dex. Double weapon breakage chance.

If you can't throw a kank, what's the point? Let the big guy actually be Large.
 
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For all intents and purposes, we will have to agree to disagree. The balance of 5e is too important to me to allow that at a table I DM.

My solution was give the other races a bonus ASI, hell I have seen that as a houserule in normal D&D.

But yeah you race is better than the Goliath and the Goliath is actually quite good already. If you buy into the idea that half giants are medium (lol), just use the Goliath.

And to add to ehrens point about 5E balance, Dragonborn and Drow also suck, the save system doesn't work that well, we have the -5/+10 feats, and there are lots of spells drastically better than others of equivalent level.

This is DARKSUN




Eeep

 
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Thanks, Caliban. For those that think 5e is unbalanced or that it is acceptable to intentionally make an imbalanced race, this thread is not for you.
 

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