D&D 5E [Dark Sun] How Would YOU Handle Defiling in 5e?

[Psikerlord#]

I seem to remember in the old days 2e that defiling caused hp damage to nearby creatures. I would just go with something like, plants turn to ash and creatures in same area suffer 2 x spell level damage (cant be resisted or reduced in any way).

Otherwise it's all roleplaying. I would definitely not make the standard defiling as powerful as imposing disadvantage on saving throws etc. And I would not make preserver spells weaker. Both those paths lead to TPK.

For more powerful stuff, I would make up a feat. Maybe something like:

Master Defiler:
(1) the damage is 3 x spell level, and you can exclude some creatures from the radius ala evoker
(2) once per short rest impose disad on a save
(3) you can conceal your defiling (ie cast preserver style) with a successful check of some kind.

 

[Jester David]

I like this method from earlier:

Defiling is the way you cast spells at higher level in Dark Sun. It becomes the default way that any wizard (and maybe sorcerer, and maybe bard) does this. It increases the power of a spell as if you had spent a higher-level slot, but you don't need to spend a higher-level slot, you just need to defile an area around you. If I wanted to get fancy, maybe have a "life cost" for each spell level you want to increase, and you can defile a greater area or more powerful creatures to pay it. Like, a 10' radius or 10 hp worth of creatures is worth one defiling point (you can't deal damage, but creatures with < that hp just die outright). The cost in life points for a more powerful spell is exponential (+1 level = 1 life point; +2 levels = 3 life points; +3 levels = 6 life points; etc.), so to ramp up a low-level spell to a high level might cost a pretty large area its vitality. You also can't defile where there's no life, so if you're in a desert or whatever, no go. But you can surround yourself with...er...batteries (slaves) who you can use to power your spells, too.

You can avoid this cost - you can become a preserver, which is the normal spell scaling rules, where you're actually spending higher-level slots. This is not common knowledge, though, so if you do this, you're part of some preserver tradition that has taught you how to do this. No one knows how to do this without being connected to some group.

That's where I'd start, anyway.

It makes defiling potent and thus tempting.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'll tell you what WotC is going to do when they come out with the rules. Defiler will be an arcane tradition which will be balanced with the other arcane traditions. That's 5e game design philosophy. If I were going to make a house rule I'd aim for something similar so I didn't have as much trouble converting to the official version when it came out.

 

[Dausuul]

I'm on the side of "defiling = +1 spell level." It's simple and clean, and it can be applied on a per-spell basis. True, it doesn't work on every spell, but it works on enough of them to make defiling significant without making it massively overpowered... and the sort of spells it works on (combat spells, mostly) are the kind of spells you'd expect defilers to be good at.

The real question is how to manage the "slippery slope" of defiling. Traditionally, preservers always have the option to defile, but every time you do, you risk going over to the dark side and losing the ability to preserve. I'd probably make it a DC 10 Wisdom save each time you defile. If you fail, you become a defiler permanently, until you find a way to break your dependence on defiling magic; breaking that dependence might involve performing a quest for a high-level druid... without using magic.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I liked the 4e way of handling it. Arcane casters got a free "Defiling" feat that you could choose to use when you cast a spell. Doing so reduced plants to ash and gave living creatures penalties or somesuch (could duplicate in 5e with disadvantage). The benefit was that you didn't use a slot.

If you didn't use the feat, you were presumed to be using preserving magic but used the slot as normal so it was very tempting to use if you didn't mind being an evil defiling asshat.

IMXP, the 4e feat lead to basically no one actually defiling in practice, which isn't something I'd like to replicate. The trade-offs in that case just weren't worth it. I want defiling to be the easy, logical, efficient, powerful choice. I want not defiling to have a cost and baggage and be difficult.

I'm kind of fond of the "rules lite" idea where if you are a wizard (etc.) and you cast a spell, you defile. Period (higher level yields bigger defiling area). It's just a thing that happens.

In that vision, preserving requires something extra (maybe it also takes your bonus action for the turn to reflect the "extra time"?) - if you don't want to kill and poison the land, you need to actively choose not to.

I'd totally consider that a viable alternative to "free spell ramp-ups."

 

[SkidAce]

How about reversing it....spell cast normally as a defiler.....but if you want to NOT defile, you have to use a slot one level higher.

"Preserving magic is harder and takes more energy my brothers...defiling is easy..." - Defilade the War Defiler.

 

[hbarsquared]

I love the concept of "defiling," and readily confess I have neither rrad Dark Sun books (any, from any edition!) or played in a Dark Sun game.

I like the idea of a "preserver" being the default wizard/whatever.

I want the "Defiler" to be overpowered and tempting, with only in-game aocial repercusions. Treat the whole "defiling mechanic" as an Artifact, even if fallen into 1st-level PC hands....

Defiling is supposed to break the game, break game balance - that's why Athas is a dead, desert world, right?

+1 spell level per 5-foot RADIUS reduced to ash. Even if you can't cast spells at that level.

For 6th+-level spells, also drain HD (not hp) from every NPC/PC within the radius.

Severe roleplaying consequences.

That's it.

 

[transtemporal]

IMXP, the 4e feat lead to basically no one actually defiling in practice,

Really? My group used it like crazy with the daily feat, since you really couldn't afford to miss with dailies in 4e.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Really? My group used it like crazy with the daily feat, since you really couldn't afford to miss with dailies in 4e.

Yup. Two years of a Dark Sun game, evil PCs, even played a "dark arcane caster" myself briefly, not one instance of a PC defiling.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm starting a new play-by-post campaign set in Athas, and I'm not sure how to handle arcane defiling given the 5e rules. Rather than put forward my own house rules, I thought I'd solicit ideas from you fine folks.

I know I want it to be mechanically powerful, since there are significant social drawbacks to doing it. Other than that, though, I'm stumped.

I'd just pull out the Dark Sun boxed set from AD&D 2nd edition, look up the defiling radius for the given spell level, and use it. Plants within that radius die; plant creatures take d6 per spell level. For the pain felt by living non-plant creatures within the radius I'd impose disadvantage on ability checks for the rest of that round and also force a concentration checks, which means that for fighter types the pain is mostly fluff but it still makes you want to kill the defiler. (I think in AD&D the penalty was something like +1 to initiative per spell level, but I'm okay with changing that to a 5E idiom.)