DARK SUN - Your Plans?

[drothgery]

God. I never really thought of that - the game doesn't really NEED clerics at all, does it? Geez. Here I was, thinking about how to convert Dark sun clerics, and you pretty much make me realize... they're not necessary at ALL. Warlords fit in much better - and in my mind, it would help make the game more of a world where armies clashed.

Hmm. I started thinking that way when I read a comment from one of the WotC folks that playing divine classes probably wasn't going to be banned straight out, but would be strongly discouraged.

Other 2e-isms that seem likely to get tossed
- bards as non-casting, poison-using assassins. That just seems likely to confuse players; either standard 4e bards will be around with a place explicitly called out or they won't, but the role filled by 2e Athasian bards will be filled by other classes (I'm thinking Rogues and actual Assassins, myself).
- random wild psionic talents. These go away because random elements in character creation just aren't 4e's thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see more options for characters with just a touch of psionic ability than conventional multiclassing into in a psionic class and the half-elven dillitante ability, though.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I've never read this before in print, though it would go a long way in explaining why these particular races (perhaps with the exception of the tarek) diverged so much with regard to their discription in the novels and the game material. Was this something you asked of Denning, Brown, or Kirchoff in personal correspondence?

Kris

I spoke with Troy. I, with Paul Liss (another old time Dark Sun mailing list member) sat in on one of Troy Denning's seminars at GenCon when it was back in Milwaukee. He had written some new FR book and the seminar was mostly about answering questions about his FR novels.

Paul and I stuck it out for the hour seminar, then approached Troy to see if he was willing to answer some questions from Dark Sun fans about his co-creation.

Troy ended up spending a full hour answering Dark Sun questions from us two. I tried compiling Troy's revelations and answers in a DS mailing list post from memory. I also found that Troy was a member of a Wisconsin-area writers forum called the Alliterates. Back then it had a forum where fans could also participate, and I ended up asking Troy if he could answer a few follow up questions via email. My email interview was mostly typed up and posted on the DS mailing list.

I'll never forget Troy spending that full hour of GenCon time with a pair of fans of one of his old works just answering design questions about his baby. We felt like we struck fandom gold being honored with that hour.

But, yeah, you could call it personal correspondence.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Wik
I've got the Dragon mag with the war beetles
kept all the ones with Dark Sun and Spelljammer, 200th and one where I got mentioned *cheesy grin*

From my perspective, the sorceror kings (bar Hammanu) are too afraid of losing to have a war...there's too little resources left, to much to be lost by all out war. But, they are paranoid..and there are real major threats out there: massive belgoi and gith tribes, thri-kreen, weird beasts, etc.

So small skirmishes (that is, small battles), subversion, stealing trade routes/forts etc are more likely to be going on, with batles mostly reserved against monster threats...though Hammanu is the exception cause he is a war mad SOB!.
But that's *my* outlook, so why not have wars on Athas, eh?

i would love ot see a battlesystem for 4th ed!!! DAMN that would rock, imagine the Dark Sun map in hexes...if they had counters and dtats for different Dark Sun forces..mmm...*drools!*

I had it in my games, that the so-uts and a few other creatures, were the living "scorched earth" weapons that partially helped cause Athas' destruciton.
So-uts attack and are enraged by buildings and metal, not creatures...so, to me, they were made as weapons of total destruction, wipe out the enemy's very basis of civilization!
except, they did far too good a job of it...

I would also like to see Dark Sun 4th ed, emphasize just how damned old Athas is, I like the feel and idea of a world that is maybe had civilizations for MILLIONS of years...like Clark Ashton Smith, ya know?

Athasian bards SHOULD be re-done..but not necessarily as a class per se, but as a "profession" and out look unqiue to Athas. See, the point is this:
-normal bards are arcane magic users, but on Athas, that's gonna get you dead!
-Athasian bards aren't jsut assassins/thieves, while true assassins and thieves DO exist, the "Athasian bard" is thing special to Athas, or to cultures that may have created such themselves.
Athasian bards are first and foremost...infiltrating entertainers! Note you can't tell an "Athasian bard" form a normal entertainer just by looking at him or her.
-Now, mechanically, you can run An Athasian bard as a rogue and that's fine, using Diplomacy and BLuff as their "Must have" skills. But they dont' work as "4th ed bards" because you cna't have arcane magic...
-You could make a new class, emphasizing the ability to learn new skills and use of poison, or just add new feats/powers for rogues to let them customize the class down the "Athasian Bard" route, with paragon and epic paths? I'd imagine Alchemy, and making alchemcial poisons, adding new "skills" for paragon path would be appropriate.

So, you must emphasize that an "Athasian Bard" is not necessarily a D&D "class" but a cultural and proffessional outlook and career, typically for rogues (or maybe assassins, depending on what that class is actually like?)

people tend ot get erroniously hooked up on professions and D&D classes, like wanting "gladiator" to be a specific class, when it's a profession and anyone who can survive in the arena is a "gladiator".
Athasian bards are spies, saboteurs and assassins, who ingraciate themselves with victims by use of artistic skills.

The usual D&D bard, a Celtic bard sort of, really doesn't fit Athas, except perhaps, as a warrior-skald?

 

[drothgery]

people tend ot get erroniously hooked up on professions and D&D classes, like wanting "gladiator" to be a specific class, when it's a profession and anyone who can survive in the arena is a "gladiator".

I've tried to fight a long war on this mentality on WotC's Star Wars boards, and you've got someone popping every month insisting that members of Jedi order have to have levels in the Jedi class, and non-members of the Jedi order should not. And that's in game with five core classes, where the designers have straight out said there will never be any more.

In D&D, with its far more tightly focuesed classes, trying to fight against it is futile. There's no reason except nostalgia to associate the name 'bard' with assassin-types in Dark Sun, and one really good reason not to.

 

[Korgoth]

As far as my plans, I will actually take the book off the shelf at the retailer and flip through it. That probably doesn't sound like much, but it's a big step for me... I haven't even bothered looking at a WOTC book in quite some time.

I don't know that I'd actually buy it... I'm still pretty hacked off about the PDF thing. And I have tried playing 4E and I simply don't enjoy it. But I will at least look at the book, because I'm very glad that WOTC has decided to go back to the original boxed set and blowing off that revised travesty. I am at least entertaining the thought of buying it... I'd like to reward WOTC for taking such a wise and positive step.

 

[JeffB]

I'll most likely be picking this up. I missed most of the Dark Sun era (getting back into D&D in the late 2E era), and only know the generalities of the setting. To be honest, at the time it was in print, I probably would not have cared for it much. But my tastes have grown more broad over the years, and much of it now sounds interesting to me- kind of a Barsoom-ish Dead Planet-y raw, harsh S&S type world.

I also love the fact that WOTC is "taking a chance" and going with something very different with the 2010 setting rather than something like DL or even my beloved Greyhawk (which I'd still like to see a book for, regardless) They seem to be touching alot of bases with 4E-old and new, which me likey