DarkMatter d20?

One of my friends is a huge fan of the old game, and so he got the d20 update, and says that it's pretty much worthless if you already have the original book. According to him, most of the text and art is just recycled, and the amount of rules updates actually necessary were pretty slim. It was more like a weak fan-based conversion than a legitimate Wizards product.

One of his larger complaints was that they just use a magic system from another d20 modern product (perhaps even the core book) instead of coming up with one that captured the flavor of the original game.

Does anyone else have any complaints.
 

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I've been a fan since D*M first came out. While 95% of this book is reprinted material, I bought a discounted copy because I love the setting and figured it would be all the rules in one place.

Sadly, my initial enthusiasm has waned when I saw the book suffered from the "you got your D&D chocolate in my d20 Modern peanut butter" syndrome (i.e., rules are written for D&D nonlethal damage, not d20 Modern nonlethal damage) that d20 Past and some entries in the Menace Manual suffered from.

So essentially the majority of the sparse new material they did include is useless with the d20 Modern RAW.

Edit: It is a nice looking book though.
 
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I am inclined to get it anyway, even though I have the original Dark*Matter book, because I'd like to help keep Wizards interested in supporting d20 Modern.
 

I don't have the original so I'm rather happy it's largely a reprint (at least for the non-rules portions).

It's rather unlikely that bringing someone in to re-write all that material would have improved it -- for supporting evidence see the Psycho remake.
 

jaerdaph said:
Sadly, my initial enthusiasm has waned when I saw the book suffered from the "you got your D&D chocolate in my d20 Modern peanut butter" syndrome (i.e., rules are written for D&D nonlethal damage, not d20 Modern nonlethal damage) that d20 Past and some entries in the Menance Manual suffered from.
Sounds like a big plus for me, since I have not been a fan of d20 Modern nonlethal damage. Perhaps OStephens (the "Pointman" of the "Bullet Point" d20 Modern Q&A web column) can sort things out for you.
 

Ranger REG said:
Sounds like a big plus for me, since I have not been a fan of d20 Modern nonlethal damage. Perhaps OStephens (the "Pointman" of the "Bullet Point" d20 Modern Q&A web column) can sort things out for you.

Actually, I was planning on compiling all those errors and sending them to him this weekend. Owen is the man! :)

I still think it is a very good book and a definite must-have for people who don't have the original Dark*Matter and have always been interested in playing. The setting fluff alone is excellent and still holds up today.
 

Personally, I like what they did with it in lieu of totally screwing it up.

I mean, they could have said: "Let's revisit Dark*Matter, but we'll reimagine everything from the ground up! All new content!" Which, frankly, would have probably turned me off unless they had me write it. ;D

The core of Dark*Matter is reprinted. Mostly, I feel, because they got it right the first time. Some of the things I didn't like didn't really make the cut, even. (Kinori, Mothmen).

That said, I'm not going to use 99.9% of the book. :) The magic system is D20 Modern's magic system. They included new spells that mimic some of the traditions (Wings of Icarus, a short fly ... all of the Vodoo stuff) but they're either Mage or Acolyte spells. The major traditions they did as X/Day Class Ability PrCs (Hermeticism, Diabolism, Monotheism, etc.

It lets you, fundamentally, play Dark*Matter with the D20Modern rules.

(The Sand Slave stuff does use D&D rules, which is sloppy work, but in my own writings I'm guilty of the same thing ... I just include a side bar explaining the D&D nonlethal rules. I like those better, they offer more options, but I don't accidentally include material based on those rules without explicitly stating that they are a variant from the D20Modern ruleset.)

They have one absolutely GOLDEN (GOLDEN!) feat in there that takes the utterly ick Vancian magic system and makes it frickin' usable ... Blood Magic. It's a Diabolism gag, but not restricted by tradition, so you could make the flavor text anything you want ... you can cast a spell without using up the slot by taking 2d6 x Spell Level damage. Boom. You go from straightjacket vancian system to options and choices ... you're not out of spells, you're out of FREE spells.

I still prefer certain other systems, of course, for the magic of Dark*Matter, but that feat alone, I feel, makes what's in the book quality junk.

Well, other than the PrCs, which I feel are totally junk. I hated the concept in Polyhedron and I hate it even more now. Personally, it's a design cop out. They took, essentially, the spells from the original text and turned them into X/Day abilities to skirt around the fact that the vancian system couldn't handle it ... and, frankly, neither can just making them X/Day abilities available at certain levels. It's inflexible, flavorless, and cludgey.

I mean ... given freedom to create new game systems would I have done the magic area of the book differently? Yes. Would I have accidentally used the wrong rules for nonlethal damage? No ... but only because I would have, again, introduced a new system.

The book also contains some of the better (and not so better) items from the Dark*Matter Arms and Equipment Guide, so, it gives some new D*M equipment.

Some of the reprinted text isn't just ... they adjusted alot of things in the Welcome to the Hoffmann Institute section ... introduced Department 7 to toe the standard, but restructured the departmental section some so everybody could be from D7 without it being a cludge to get the team together on a mission (before you had many different groups with different goals who wouldn't really be sending team members out to do gung-ho cowboy antics and would instead handle it with small focused teams of their own ... so every PC group was a "special case scenario".)

There's more information there to introduce and interest the PLAYER ... which is why, in the end, I bought the book. I left it at the Game Haus so the others could pick it up and fondle the textured cover and read the introductory elements and become interested in playing ... because I haven't run a tabletop Dark*Matter game in over a year ... and I want to.

It's a toss up ... if you have the original books, then you've got good solid flavor text in your hand already. I've long urged people to go out and pay 5 bucks for the Dark*Matter PDF, because that's probably the best value out there in gaming fluff for your dollar ... the original book didn't contain too much in rules, so this book didn't need to include too much in new material.

Did they use the existing magic system of d20Modern? Yes, but did anybody really expect that they would do differently? They have a system standard to adhere to now and I doubt they'd have let the writers go forth doing a new system. They did add one feat in there which opens a back door onto the existing system to make it more flexible ... little diamond in the rough there.

My major complaints? That they didn't sidebar D&D style nonlethal and just admit that they too don't like the Modern nonlethal system. And the PrCs for the magical traditions ... those are utter crud, IMHO, and I'd never use them in a game.

--fje
 

I did a pretty extensive writeup of what's new and what's reprinted somewhere in the "Dark Matter d20 ongoing review" thread.

Even though I've already got the old book, from a non-selfish standpoint, I'm happy that they chose to reprint instead of rewrite. Dark Matter is a cool setting and players shouldn't be forced to hunt down an out of print book to experience that coolness themselves.

I like most of the new mechanics. The feats, spells, and powers are all cool and/or useful, and my only complaint is that there weren't more. Most of the races are good--I could say bad things about the fraal, but i've said those same things about the fraal in Menace Manual and the fraal in d20 Future, and you can count the number of people who hate those two books on one hand. The antiquarian sucks, but you can just take another level of smart hero instead.

I realize that they're not being particularly faithful to the magic system, but that's not something I really expected, and it only matters to pendantic folks like me. And we can buy Heap's SFX Skills PDFs [if they ever come out]. That said, it'll be a lot easier to give my magical baddies levels in Diabolist than to spend a few hours fiddling about with skill points, so expect the PrCs to see some use in my games anyway. My only major gripe with them is that they're written for a version of Dark Matter that didn't include the Mage or Accolyte, and could use some buffing up to compensate.

the non-lethal damage thing doesnt' actually bother me at all. I agree with Heap that they should just stick a sidebar at the front of all their books and be done with it, the way they do for swift and immediate actions in D&D. And unlike earlier books, confusing lethal and non-lethal damage here doesn't have much of an effect--The whelm spells remain just as useful, and Hot Running confers benefits beyond non-lethal damage removal.
 

Man, I'm really torn on whether to buy this. I saw it in the store yesterday and it is very pretty. It seems awfully thin for $30 is my main concern, especially when I have all the old material. The prestige classes didn't look like something I'd use, so other than the feats and spells, I'm not sure I can justify paying full price right now.

OTOH, if I don't pick it up, I can see it disappearing off the shelf in short order, and the way my local game store restocks titles, I won't see it again, ever. And I know a year from now I'll be kicking myself for not buying it when I had the chance.
 

I glanced at it at the bookstore too. And although there are elements in there I'd like to incorporate into a d20 DarkMatter campaign, I thought it was lacking. Most disappointing was the absence of the "Raw Recruits" adventure from the back of the alternity book.

I think, if I want to run DarkMatter, I may just stick with Alternity. Though I may knuckle under and buy this in spite of myself.
 

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