5E Darksun converted to 5e, trying to be true to 2e

Coroc

Explorer
This is my attempt to establish Darksun rules for 5e while being as true as possible to 2e.
Also I try to use as much 5e stuff reskinned as possible. E.g. my Mul is basically a halforc.
I will start with the possibly race and class combos followed by some in depth explanation.

RaceHumanHalflingElfDwarfMulThrikreenHalfgiant
Strength+1+2+2
Dexterity+1+2+2+2
Constitution+1+2+1+2
Intelligence+1+1
Wisdom+1+1+1+1
Charisma+1
Runspeed30255025304040
SpecialPsi TalentCannibalistic Advantage vs.Fear . Resistance vs. Poison.Advantage Running . Immune vs. Sleep. Advantage vs. Charm.Focus . +1HP/Level. Resistance vs. Poison.Advantage Constitution. Needs only half water ration. Brutal Crtitcal +1d (Fighter, Glad. only) . Die Hard 1 x per long rest, if HP reduced to zero, HP reduced to one HP instead.Bite 2d6 Poison 1x per short or long rest, Saving throw Co or pois. 1 turn DC= Co+Prof+8. Natural weapons 1d4. Advantage jumping, 3 x distance. Nat. Armor 13+ Dex mod. Cannot use normal armor.Advantage Strength Double Carrying capacity. Equipment costs 4x normal. Needs 4x Water ration Natural Weapons 2d4 . Large, does 1d4 more physical damage with weapons.
ClassHumanHalflingElfDwarfMulThrikreenHalfgiant
Fighter (Champion)XXXXXXX
Gladiator (Battlemaster)XXXXXXX
Preserver (all Subclass except Nekromancer)Xonly IllusionistX
Rogue Thief sbubclassXXX
Bard (Rogue Assasin subclass)XX
Cleric Fire (Light)XXXX
Cleric Water (Healing)XXXXX
Cleric Earth (War)XXXXX
Cleric Air (Tempest)XXXX
Mystic (Psionicist)XXXXX
Templar (Warlock Tome reskinned)NPC
Druid (Circle of the Land only)NPCNPCNPC
Defiler (Sorcerer Wildmage)NPCNPC
Defiler NecromantNPCNPC

All characters start at level 3 with maximum HP. No feats. On level up PC can either do a attribute raise of +2 to a single attribute or +1 to 2 attributes. Alternatively every race who can be a mystic can take some minor psionic talent. Human PC get one of these bonus at creation.

On the races: Human, Halfling, Dwarf, Elf is almost standard. Mul is a reskinned Halforc. Thrikreen is pretty experimental, Maybe the poison bite should scale per level as with a dragonborns breath weapon.
For halfgiant they get 1d4 bonus damage as if they were humans under the spell Enlarge. So their natural weapon output is 2d4.
Of the races I see human Halfling, dwarf, elf, mul, as unproblematic. Halfgiant and thrikreen are rather optional.
The classes are pretty restricted to be true to the 2e version, and to prevent some of the typical Darksun environmental challenges to be trivialized like e.g. monk, barbarian could.
An x marks a combo I would allow in my campaign, you see I am a bit into archetypes.
Normal fighters would be of the champion subclass, the gladiator class with all its tricks is best depicted as battlemaster in my point of view. Preserver can be of any subclass except necromancer.
The bard is actually a rogue assassin, not a RAW bard. He should get some poisoner skills and needs a bit fleshing out.
Druids would be mostly NPC because they are really bound to their strip of land, the area they guard in Darksun.
Templars, I see them as 5e warlocks of the tome with their sorcerer-king/queen as patron rulewise. Not that they would get an actual tome, they could, but it rather could be a crest or a ring or a necklage or another token. Chain does not fit, Darksun is not about summoning imps to assist one self. Blade also does not fit, there is no easy way to get a metal weapon in Darksun so their should not be an easy way to get a magical weapon. Again normally Templars are NPCs
My take on defilers is that they are either sorcerers of the wildmage subclass or Wizards wit hthe necromancer subclass, both rather should be NPC, and I need some mechanic eventually free sorcerer points or so to depict the defiling.

I will cont. this thread with my take on the special equipment rules for Darksun I think I got a pretty cool solution for minor weapon quality w/o breaking 5e bound accuracy.
 

Coroc

Explorer
So as promised here comes the equipment list.
Darksun uses ceramic coins the ratio is
1 Gold = 20 Silver = 240 Copper = 960 Ceramic

Note that's my 1g is 20s houserule which is more realistic than the decimal system.
Generally trade will only use ceramic coins since all metal is rare, so are coins.

The weapon and armor tables show the items made of ordinary material and made from metal when applicable. This is just for comparison in stats and pricing, metal items are rare and considered "magic" treasure. They never break, wepons of minor material break when the wielder rolls a natural 1 for the attack, followed by a botched DC10 save for the weapon.
Armor out of minor material gets damaged and defunct if they are attacked with a nat 20 critical on a follow up botched DC 5 save for the armor.

My general approach for e.g. a weapon out of bone and the same weapon out of metal was to put the dice 1 category higher for the metal weapon. This is consistent with 5e bound accuracy and also with magic weapons out of minor material!

Everything with -1 and so on just messes around with logic bound accuracy and consistency.

Note I also only added weapons which could be reasonably made out of the material so no obsidian rapier or similar nonsense.

WeaponMaterialDamageSpecialRangeTypePrice/Ceramic
KnifeObsidian1d3Finesse0/10/30P/S2
Steel1d4200
DaggerObsidian1d4Finesse0/10/30P/S3
Steel1d6300
SwordObsidian1d6Finesse0P/S12
Steel1d81200
AxeObsidian1d60/10/30S/B10
Steel1d81000
Club/StickWood1d40B1
Bone1d41
Quarterstaff*Wood1d6*PM5B2
2h Club*Wood1d8*Heavy0B3
Bone1d8*3
HammerStone1d40/10/30B2
Steel1d6200
WarhammerObsidian1d80S/B15
Steel1d101500
Maul*Stone2d6*Heavy0B25
Steel2d8*2500
MaceStone1d80B15
Steel1d101500
MorningstarWood/Sting2d30S/B12
Wood/Steel2d41200
Throwing spearObsidian1d630/120P5
Spear*Obsidian1d8*PM5P15
Steel1d10*1500
Gythka*Wood/Chitin2d4*PM5P/S15
AlhulakObsidian1d40P10
Steel1d61000
Cahulak*Obsidian2d3*PM5P20
Steel2d4*2000
TrikalObsidian1d10*Heavy/PM5S/P25
Steel1d12*2500
Lotulis*Obsidian2d4Heavy/PM5P/S25
Steel2d62500
CatchkaChitin1d6Boomerang Dex DC 1030/120P/S5
Sling*Leather120/2401
DejadaLeather90/3305
BulletsStone1d4B1/12
Bow*Wood/Bone100/48020
ArrowsWood1d4P1/12
ArrowsObsidian1d6P10/12
ArrowsSteel1d8P1000/12

*marks two handed use only, PM means applicable for polearm master feat, but I tend to see DS as better using no feats.


Here is Armor and shields:


ArmorMaterialACMax Dex. BonusStealthMin StrengthPrice/Ceramic
Padded ArmorLinen/CottonLight 1120
BrigandineLeather/BoneLight 123Min. 1050
Leather/SteelLight 133Min. 105000
Scale armorAnimal ScalesMedium 132DisadvantageMin. 12200
SteelMedium 142DisadvantageMin. 1220000
Breast plateMekilot leatherMedium 132DisadvantageMin. 12400
SteelMedium 142DisadvantageMin. 1240000
ChainmailBoneHeavy 150DisadvantageMin. 14400
SteelHeavy 160DisadvantageMin. 1440000
Plate armorMekilot leatherHeavy 160DisadvantageMin. 16600
SteelHeavy 180DisadvantageMin. 1660000

ShieldAC BonusPrice/Ceramic
Leather shield15
Wooden shield210
 
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Coroc

Explorer
And to be complete here is some general items and spell scrolls:
ItemSpecialRangeEffectPrice/Ceramic
ErdluTravel - Ridinglizard50
CrodluWar - Ridinglizard150
KankRiding / Draft - Beetle200
InixDraft Lizard300
MekilotBig Draft Lizard500
Wagon/Coach100 - 600
Sleeping bag30
Rope 300 ft10
Torch (Grass/Tar)Light 10 ft1
Lantern (Glass/Stone)Light 60 ft20
Oil BottleRw Ge 10/010 Ø1d4 Fire / turn for 3 turns5
Healing fruitheals HP2d4+2 HP50
Poison fruitRw Co 10/01d4 poison / poisoned100/3
Antidot fruitAdv. Save vs. Poison50
ThornsRunspeed -10Save Dex 15/010 / □ 5110/20
Round PeeblesSave Dex 10/030 / Ø 30prone10/100
Holy WaterUndead / demon302d6 radiant100
Iron Ration /day1
Waterskin 1 gallon1
Papyrus blank25
Papyrus w. Spell (1.-9.level)1: 480
Level^2 x 480 Ceramic2: 1920
3: 4320
4: 7620
5: 12000
6:17280
7: 23520
8: 30720
9: 38880
 
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mserabian

Explorer
Your stuff looks great! I've just been thinking of getting back to Athas...
Just looking over at wizards, and does anyone know if the 2017 version of the Mystic is the latest update to the psionic classes?
 

Coroc

Explorer
Anything for the Dray? They should at least be a subrace for Dragonborn.
If i would include them then i would reskin them as being kind of lizardpeople. They would get some special attack, maybe a bite or a tail sweep, but not a breath weapon. I would also give them some defense, maybe natural armor but no energy resistance. The "Dragon" in DS is to signature so the dragon heritage would make not much sense.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Hmmn wonder where you got some of these ideas from?

In my one war clerics are Templars and earth clerics are nature.

Dray I wouldn't worry about or convert them from city by the Silt Sea. Dragonborn don't fit thematically or mechanically.
 

Coroc

Explorer
Your stuff looks great! I've just been thinking of getting back to Athas...
Just looking over at wizards, and does anyone know if the 2017 version of the Mystic is the latest update to the psionic classes?
Well thank you. I am pretty proud of how i could resolve the minor quality weapon w/o -1 to hit or to damage or such, and, since Athas is secluded, and its inhabitants are tougher than normal due to its higher gravity it does not hurt, since no comparison to stuff coming from outside will be necessary.

See you could get a magic +1 bone dagger +1 to hit +1 to damage for 1d4+1. No fiddling around with "oh but it should have -1 for the bone material" or such. Easy. Magic weapons would be unbreakable also so that is that.
Your mundane steel dagger would be +0 to hit but 1d6 damage. not gamebreaking at all.


Reducing armor class by armor made for minor quality will ensure combat will produce mpore hits.
Therefore also recommendatio nnot to use feats, so martial classes will max out their prime attribute quickly and hit even more often. This will provide the 2e feel which many players back then liked so much about 2e DS.
Combat was suddenly much quicker compared to vanilla 2e, where you often had drawn out combat especially at lower levels.

Everyone starting at 3rd level with full hp (i recommend rolling hd after that, with a 1 can be rerolled once)
So everybody got a good hp bolster, so you can also survive this harder combat conditions.

I cannot tell which mystic is up to date, but the UA wit hthe many subclasses needs work. First of all you got to extract some minor psionic wild talents, find suitable candidates for that. Second, almost all of the subclases are not very fit for athas. I have to thouroughly analyse this, but it requires soe homework for sure at least imho.
 

Coroc

Explorer
Hmmn wonder where you got some of these ideas from?

In my one war clerics are Templars and earh clerics are nature.
I read your stuff on your DS conversion and did like many things but some others not so much. Templars were of course clerics in the original, but for me they just scream warlock in 5e, many of their manipulative and investigative casting potential suits perfectly for their role.

The clerics maybe also need some finetuning, in giving them some elemental domain spells and maybe limiting strength of some other spells. but that needs to be done very carefully.
 

Coroc

Explorer
Darksun I think less is more.

Did you copy my old thread in regards to mapping some 5E subclasses to classes from 2E?
As do i, i am total old school in that.
I did work on it independant of you for a long time, but it was in no shape to post here. I got some inspiration from your thread, and shamelessly integrated it into this , i think i copied the idea to take standard domains for the elemental clerics, but i honestly cannot tell you anymore for which other stuff i did get my ideas, either on doing it like you or to find a different solution.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
As do i, i am total old school in that.
I did work on it independant of you for a long time, but it was in no shape to post here. I got some inspiration from your thread, and shamelessly integrated it into this , i think i copied the idea to take standard domains for the elemental clerics, but i honestly cannot tell you anymore for which other stuff i did get my ideas, either on doing it like you or to find a different solution.
I posted my stuff, don't care if people mine them.

It was mostly placeholder stuff, ideally elemental domains could be done along with template domain which would have some wizard spells like lightning bolt in it.
 

Coroc

Explorer
I posted my stuff, don't care if people mine them.

It was mostly placeholder stuff, ideally elemental domains could be done along with template domain which would have some wizard spells like lightning bolt in it.
My main intention was to have something to usable and to my taste, and I think that even if wizards brings out something like official 5e darksun for me personally it very likely would need almost as much work to shape it to my taste, as doing it homebrew, thereby checking out what other people had done on this forum, and stealing it if I like it.

I also want that people take my ideas and if they want to alter them it is also cool, after all that's part of the fun off DM.

In a way I do it the same with official products

And yes I agree, wizard spells reshaped as domain spells are the best solution, also to keep it simple and balanced.

I wonder if it is possible to recreate the 2e elemental cleric a bit better, maybe restricting spells other than elemental to 5th level or lower? What do you think?
 

Zardnaar

Hero
My main intention was to have something to usable and to my taste, and I think that even if wizards brings out something like official 5e darksun for me personally it very likely would need almost as much work to shape it to my taste, as doing it homebrew, thereby checking out what other people had done on this forum, and stealing it if I like it.

I also want that people take my ideas and if they want to alter them it is also cool, after all that's part of the fun off DM.

In a way I do it the same with official products

And yes I agree, wizard spells reshaped as domain spells are the best solution, also to keep it simple and balanced.

I wonder if it is possible to recreate the 2e elemental cleric a bit better, maybe restricting spells other than elemental to 5th level or lower? What do you think?
The gave clerics access to the cosmos sphere later iirc. Ideally you would have a Darksun unique spell list with a lot of elemental spells on it.

Or design a DS specific new class that's a bit closer to the 2E elemental clerics.

Quick and dirty though domains. I have flame, stone domain, tempest and life and be air and water.
 

Coroc

Explorer
The gave clerics access to the cosmos sphere later iirc. Ideally you would have a Darksun unique spell list with a lot of elemental spells on it.

Or design a DS specific new class that's a bit closer to the 2E elemental clerics.

Quick and dirty though domains. I have flame, stone domain, tempest and life and be air and water.
The perfectionist in me doesn't want the water cleric to be able to cast flame strike, but rather ice storm, if the standard domains apply, at least such minor detail needs to be fixed.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
The perfectionist in me doesn't want the water cleric to be able to cast flame strike, but rather ice storm, if the standard domains apply, at least such minor detail needs to be fixed.
I meant they would have spells relevent to the element.

There's enough spells from 2E and Xanathars to cobble together a decent spell list.

Making a priest class could also work, but replacing level 6-9;spells with elemental ones (gate as well maybe). Poach a few Druidic or arcane ones if need be.

2E Tome of Magic and Spells and Magic had expanded Elemental Spell lists.
 
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lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
This is great- just OOC, are you concerned that the Half Giants are, well, too much?
 

Coroc

Explorer
How do you handle Defiling?

It is also what created much of the wastelands Darksun now is.
It is working on all things living. It should be drastic. Not only plants dying but also living beings taking damage.
Defiling is a mainly NPC thing for enemy defilers and but for the PC party preserver it can be an emergency last resort act.

So i would suggest that all plants wither around the caster and every living being takes 1d4 necrotic damage per spell level on a failed constitution save. 0 if the save succeeds, because it should be totally resistable, that is what the preserver always does "the other way round" when casting, i hope you get what i try to express.
Radius would be 30 feet / spell level the save dc is the dc of the caster.
If it is a spell lasting more than 1 round the damage continues respective it requires another save.

Has to be playtested a bit but i believe that works. If some higher being, e.g. a sorcerer king defiles then the damge and radius should be bigger. Defiling should never discriminate between freind and foe, so allys of an freind or enemy caster would get damaged as well eventually, so there is always a price to pay.

Now to the effect for the spell to be cast. I guess everything can be game here. form reroling all 1s and 2s on the damage dice to metamagics. I still have to think about that a bit what might be best.
 

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