DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept

[payn]

I'm very rarely a player, so perhaps it's more difficult for me to get into the player mindset.

To me, the randomness reminds me of when I was in middle school and my character got access to a Wish spell through a Deck of Many Things. I Wished my friend's character into a woodchuck. There were lulz.

Random charts seem good for that old-school mentality where you enjoy seeing terrible traps and awful spells destroy your friends' progress in the game - because "at least it's not your character."

As one of my players commented last session "It's not 1974 anymore." I don't need adversarial charts of terrible, random things to do to characters, like a game system that uses Grimtooth's Traps as its core resolution mechanic.

Put this way. I love classic arcade games. I can happily play Galaga for about 15 minutes to see if I can beat my personal record before I lose my ships, but I'm not going to lose myself in it for hours like I would Skyrim (or my wife does with Breath of the Wild or Baldur's Gate 3). DCC seems like one of those classic arcade games.

Bingo. I think you summed it up perfectly.

 

[Von Ether]

Yes.

For me, unfortunate. That each and every spell was almost its own mini-game, and that you could almost never count on getting a spell result you could actually use was one of the biggest causes of us abandoning the DCC system.

From what I understand for some GM with the OSR mindset is that random tables give them the sense "being a player" as they live to be surprised by the results the roll up and quickly interpret them into the gaming fiction. As with everything in life being a spectrum, the boundary of "Too many charts" is different for each gamer.

 

[Mannahnin]

From what I understand for some GM with the OSR mindset is that random tables give them the sense "being a player" as they live to be surprised by the results the roll up and quickly interpret them into the gaming fiction. As with everything in life being a spectrum, the boundary of "Too many charts" is different for each gamer.

Yup. I like procedural and random content generation and encounters because they keep the game more fresh and events (and their sequencing) more unexpected and exciting for me. They also increase verisimilitude for the players if I do it right, because they know I'm not just feeding them a pre-set script of encounters. Some are based on their choices, others are random but influenced by their choices. I do this in 5E as well as OSR stuff.

 

[Reynard]

Yup. I like procedural and random content generation and encounters because they keep the game more fresh and events (and their sequencing) more unexpected and exciting for me. They also increase verisimilitude for the players if I do it right, because they know I'm not just feeding them a pre-set script of encounters. Some are based on their choices, others are random but influenced by their choices. I do this in 5E as well as OSR stuff.

I think the most valuable part of using lots of random tables for me as GM isn't so much that I get to e surprised (although that is fun) it is that it helps me not lean too heavily on my go-to tropes and forces me to be creative in incorporating the random results.

 

[Mannahnin]

I think the most valuable part of using lots of random tables for me as GM isn't so much that I get to e surprised (although that is fun) it is that it helps me not lean too heavily on my go-to tropes and forces me to be creative in incorporating the random results.

Yes, good point. That's nice too. It's a great spur to creativity and coming up with more original stuff than I would otherwise.

 

[Von Ether]

Yes, good point. That's nice too. It's a great spur to creativity and coming up with more original stuff than I would otherwise.

It too be a great tool for that, but for decades I ignored them because even back in the TSR days, most of them indicators for the local ecology at best. Just tables of threat flavored encounters modified by random morale. Nothing surprising or inspiring for me, personally there.

The ones I enjoy right now are for Dragonbane as they hint at how the setting works and each regional table has an encounter that feeds into the local dungeon.

 

[CapnZapp]

From what I understand for some GM with the OSR mindset is that random tables give them the sense "being a player" as they live to be surprised by the results the roll up and quickly interpret them into the gaming fiction.

I don't mind random tables in general.

But I wasn't talking about that. I was, quite specifically, saying that randomizing nearly every parameter in DCC spellcasting is way way WAY too much randomness, to - and well past - the point where these spells cease to be viewed as actually useful to the player.

Not to mention the completely unnecessary fiddliness that makes using these spells far too cumbersome and slow.

Again: I understand what they set out to achieve, and sympathize with that goal. I just think they failed miserably by overshooting the target several times over.

Random tables in general can be good fun, though.

 

[CapnZapp]

I guess modern games have developed new habits that die hard.

Modern gamers definitely would gain from exposure to something like a DCC funnel. It would open their eyes in many ways.

 

[payn]

Modern gamers definitely would gain from exposure to something like a DCC funnel. It would open their eyes in many ways.

Maybe. I wont argue that having a disparate amount of experiences is a good thing, but if you find you have a wheelhouse there is nothing wrong with that. I think the line is crossed, however, when you assume that wheelhouse is the standard in which all games are graded.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sounds like you didn't use the mechanic of burning luck to save your better characters. Or that you tried to swashbuckle your way through. Usually DCC adventures favor the clever player who doesn't just barrel straight in, who uses their surroundings and meager items available to them to MacGyver their way through. Player intellect rather than character ability.

The point about Luck is relevant.

If you luck out and roll up great stats, then when you find yourself in a tight spot during the adventure, burn that Luck to survive.

You can always regain Luck later on (though this depends on the GMs generosity).

One very important aspect of DCC is that ability scores CAN be very mutable. For instance, I hear many stories about all Thieves ending up either dead or with 18 Luck eventually