DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept

[overgeeked]

Heroes are the ones who survived and did the big things. You can only assess that at the end -- death or retirement.

This touches on the subject of what a "campaign" is, too. Is it a "story" about a certain set of characters, or is it a world? If the former, of course things like TPKs ruin campaigns. But if it is the latter, the story doesn't end just because some group ends up moldering bones on the bottom of a spiked pit. There are other heroes.

Right. That’s a big part of it. Self-centered focus on me the player and my character instead of the group, the campaign, the world, or the game. “I am the star” not even “we are the stars”.

The heroes are the ones who live. Make the character who survives the 0-level funnel the hero. Get attached to the one who actually does something in the game. Hell, don’t even name them until they survive. They’re a random collection of numbers. It’s a game.

 

[payn]

For funsies, here is a quick gen funnel character creator.

 

[Retreater]

Also -- and this should go without saying, but we seem to have to say it a lot -- just because you didn't like a thing doesn't mean it is a "bad concept" or "bad design."

Agreed. I had a bad experience and had some holdover gripes from that game when I made the OP. While I don't want to tell anyone they're having "badwrongfun" I can say that the experience I had with the the funnel at the con game was badly run and poorly implemented. The game was so bad that I can't imagine another Judge(?) being able to present it differently due to the inherent flaws in the structure of the character funnel concept in that adventure.
Running around with characters who are common peasants trying to survive impossible odds and having their first taste of adventure doesn't sound like a terrible concept (especially for some good laughs and a light-hearted game), but I think it should be a 20-ish page pamphlet system, not THE selling point for a system with a 400 page rulebook, unique dice, dozens of adventures, etc.
The funnel is the main thing I've heard about DCC. And it's certainly nothing to write home about, IMO.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Right. That’s a big part of it. Self-centered focus on me the player and my character instead of the group, the campaign, the world, or the game. “I am the star” not even “we are the stars”.

The heroes are the ones who live. Make the character who survives the 0-level funnel the hero. Get attached to the one who actually does something in the game. Hell, don’t even name them until they survive. They’re a random collection of numbers. It’s a game.

I also think DCC's general ethos and tone fits this perfectly. You can play heroic adventure stories with DCC, but what it's embracing by default is something meaner and greedier, which I fully respect. It's not the sort of thing I gravitate toward as a GM, but I'd kill to play in at some point.

 

[payn]

Agreed. I had a bad experience and had some holdover gripes from that game when I made the OP. While I don't want to tell anyone they're having "badwrongfun" I can say that the experience I had with the the funnel at the con game was badly run and poorly implemented. The game was so bad that I can't imagine another Judge(?) being able to present it differently due to the inherent flaws in the structure of the character funnel concept in that adventure.
Running around with characters who are common peasants trying to survive impossible odds and having their first taste of adventure doesn't sound like a terrible concept (especially for some good laughs and a light-hearted game), but I think it should be a 20-ish page pamphlet system, not THE selling point for a system with a 400 page rulebook, unique dice, dozens of adventures, etc.
The funnel is the main thing I've heard about DCC. And it's certainly nothing to write home about, IMO.

I think you were oversold on the funnel concept. It's not the crown jewel of DCC (I didnt even know about it until after playing a campaign) its just an element that is tons of fun.

 

[overgeeked]

I also think DCC's general ethos and tone fits this perfectly. You can play heroic adventure stories with DCC, but what it's embracing by default is something meaner and greedier, which I fully respect. It's not the sort of thing I gravitate toward as a GM, but I'd kill to play in at some point.

Exactly. It fully embraces Appendix N Sword & Sorcery pulp fantasy. It’s not a game, generally, about selfless heroes saving the world with no expectation of reward. It’s a game of hired thugs slaughtering men and monsters for gold. Magic is dangerous and corrupts. The gods are cruel and fickle. It absolutely nails that aesthetic.

 

[Undrave]

Um, overall, feels like a weird reaction. for me the funnel is like the best part of the system. Survival is pure chance, yeah. The idea is discovering your character through the experience, whatever it is. So your stupidest character is the only one to survive, make what you can with them and, yeah, sure, might be a short future, but that’s their life, live it, role play it.

Feels like a waste of my limited time

 

[dragoner]

I prefer more competent characters at start, so as to maximize that middle area of playing, before they become too powerful.

 

[Fenris-77]

The funnel is really just the rolling four sets of stats and picking one thing, except it's done at the table and you don't always get the one you want. I usually advise treating some of your 0 level goons as ablative armor for the ones you want to see get to level one. It doesn't always work, but its always fun.

 

[Retreater]

The funnel is really just the rolling four sets of stats and picking one thing, except it's done at the table and you don't always get the one you want. I usually advise treating some of your 0 level goons as ablative armor for the ones you want to see get to level one. It doesn't always work, but it always fun.

Yeah, but in this case it's random stat generation, random HP, random classes, and random chance of survivability.
If everything is that random, I'd rather just drop a few Plinko chips on the Price is Right and let Bob Barker tell me what character I'm playing.
In the case of the funnel I played there was zero player skill involved. You rolled a die to see what mutation you got, rolled a die for your character to see which one randomly got killed by the BBEG, etc.