DCC Level 0 Character Funnel is a Bad Concept

[CapnZapp]

That's true. It just doesn't do anything for me, personally.

I'm just generally against any indication that preferring a play style that's more difficult is any sort of sign of actual moral rectitude.

Please don't move the goal posts.

This thread isn't called "DCC is a morally better game and D&D gamers should be ashamed".

It's title is suggesting DCC funnel rules are bad and my posts are arguing no they're not objectively bad but they ARE trying to do something the OP might have no appreciation for.

I just wrote there's nothing wrong with regular D&D, and being rewarded just for showing up, so...

 

[Smackpixi]

More deadly games are not necessarily more “difficult” than others when the failure is due to randomness, dice rolls. Rolling over a 15 on a d20 is not more difficult than over a 10, it’s just less likely.

It’s on games, and GMs, with high failure rates to keep them fun, and provide a way to continue. Cause yeah, oh, your dead, go home isn’t fun. But oh, you’re dead, throw some more spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks this time can be…and that’s the funnel…embrace the idea that you don’t control what comes out the other end.

A whole lot of DCC is about taking risks and dealing with the consequences. Both the GM and players have less control of how things play out than say 5e.

 

[Smackpixi]

Maybe that’s not how everyone runs funnels, but if you’re in my game, and all your guys died, absolutely, roll up four more, and they’re walking above the dungeon, and the floor collapses, and they fall into the room where everyone else is. Now roll to see which of those guys died before you could even play them. And who they killed falling through the floor.

 

[Dumnbunny]

It's also what DCC bases the product line upon. It's the primary selling point: a Session 0 adventure.

Except neither are true. The product list is not based on level 0 funnels. Of the 53-ish official modules from the main line (excluding Lankhmar, MCC, etc), only 5 are level 0 funnels. For comparison, 12 are level 1 modules. They've published more level 5 modules for the main line than level 0 funnels.

It's a selling point, but hardly the primary selling point. In fact, they left out level 0 funnels from their entire Lankhmar line. This demonstrates both that it isn't a primary selling point, and that funnels lift right out without affecting the rest of the game. They're like that sprig of parsley that comes with your steak; if you don't like it, don't eat it.

 

[Arilyn]

It's not expected that players just do funnels over and over again. That'd be a lot of wasted pages on spells and class features otherwise. You do the funnel (or not) and then start regular play. And it is actually possible to reach higher levels.

 

[bmfrosty]

A 0-level funnel can be a fantastic thing. It sounds like you were in a poorly run one.

 

[Golden Bee]

I played my first funnel after decades of RPG’s, and I think Paranoia trained me well. It was ‘seeking the post-humans’ from Mutant Crawl Classics. We had one lucky roll (a crit that caused the giant boss to go last initiative, allowing a 20-on-one beatdown), but a lot of it felt like paying attention. EG:
There was a giant scorpion that was chasing us… So we led it away with one of the skateboards we found.

In MCC, you can burn luck to succeed, so the party lost maybe four characters out of 24, and one that was automatically because of the adventure. (GM asked for the lowest luck, that character was killed in a funny way.)

 

[MNblockhead]

More deadly games are not necessarily more “difficult” than others when the failure is due to randomness, dice rolls. Rolling over a 15 on a d20 is not more difficult than over a 10, it’s just less likely.

It’s on games, and GMs, with high failure rates to keep them fun, and provide a way to continue. Cause yeah, oh, your dead, go home isn’t fun. But oh, you’re dead, throw some more spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks this time can be…and that’s the funnel…embrace the idea that you don’t control what comes out the other end.

A whole lot of DCC is about taking risks and dealing with the consequences. Both the GM and players have less control of how things play out than say 5e.

This is an important point. Actually, the funnel makes this a lot easier on the DM as each player has multiple zero-level PCs. One issue with many D&D-based games is that as you have a party that is well into an adventure, when a character dies it can be difficult for some DMs to work in a new PC without the player of the dead PC having to sit out for a while just watching others play. As a DM I've long ago decided getting the player back into the game was more important than waiting for the "right" time to introduce a new character. At least with DCC rolling up a new character is relatively quick. But, whatever the game, I'll often encourage the players to have a backup PC rolled up and ready to go just in case and will have some pregens at hand if needed.

Still a fan of how Paranoia just leans into this with every PC having a number of clones. When they die, their clone is activate and delivered through a nearby chute by our Friend the Computer.

 

[Lanefan]

I'd wager that I've have played D&D as long as many people here. (I started DMing in 1989.)
I've never said that I mind character death or that I want characters to be superheroes.
I just don't like games where the PCs are worse than everything encountered. Even in the earliest editions of D&D, a magic user's spell could come in clutch. Or a fighter might have better armor or more hit points than a goblin.
To me, the funnel just seems bad design. It's also what DCC bases the product line upon. It's the primary selling point: a Session 0 adventure.

To me the DCC funnel is just a sped-up (and hyped-up) version of what happens in typical low-level 0e-1e play anyway, as each player churns through several characters until one or two hang on long enough to become relevant.

 

[Smackpixi]

I just don't like games where the PCs are worse than everything encountered.

That’s not necessarily uncommon, with a party of four facing a single enemy. I get dither enemies are common in many games, but one designed so everyone is stronger than you so encounters require coordination amongst the party to succeed, is that like crap game design? How is playing mooks sucked into a strange universe of challenging encounters not fun? Is grinding levels on pointless encounters necessary for a fun game? Only whale hunts seems like something even you might like, why does their need to be encounters with suck ass goblins on the way to the whale?