D&D General DDB/WOTC Price Increases

[djotaku]

I am the DM. None of them want the role so if I do not run, then they do not play.

They also trust me to pick something they would enjoy.

Sure, but for my folks, if they do not play they do not care. They all have zillions other things they enjoy doing.

 

[AlViking]

new one, singular. We are talking about the Ravenloft book. I expect the $40 to also be the price for new releases going forward (rather than the $30 of the last however many years)


they can, but 1) 33% at once, 2) with increased sales those cost are essentially flat for a digital release, so the price drops off fast if sales increase.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with development cost, just like the $30 were not about development cost but about being x% of the print book

How could the price they need to charge in order to make a reasonable profit not be influenced by development costs? Inflation affects their costs just like it affects everyone else, we can't just expect them to ignore rising costs of creating the material.

Prices increasing over time is just basic economics, we don't have to like it but this has gotten into "COST INCREASE!!!!!" with the response "It's called inflation." so unless there's something else to add...

 

[Koloth]

Old-timer perspective. When I bought my first hardcovers—the 1st edition AD&D core books, in the mid-80s—they were $15 and 128 pages with black & white art. That's $45 in 2026 dollars. The 5.5e core books are $50, exactly three times the page count, and have full-color art.

Myself? I can't complain.

Bought my PHB and MM a bit earlier. MSRP was $9.95 and was listed in the back of the books. DMG listed as a future release. By the time the DMG came out, no more MSRP list in the back of the books. Inflation then was a LOT worse in the US then it is now. For most things RPG and even gaming in general, today's value for money is generally better. Plus a huge improvement in variety of stuff available. And now you can often get PDFs versions. If you wanted a working copy of part of that AD&D PHB to give to your players, you could photocopy part of it at 10 cents per page.

 

[mamba]

How could the price they need to charge in order to make a reasonable profit not be influenced by development costs?

the price they would need to charge is obviously dependent on the development costs. The price they actually do charge is based on a percentage of the book price however, which is much higher than the price would be if it actually were based on the development cost.

Ultimately the development costs do not factor in how they arrive at the price they charge, even though they set a lower limit below which the product would not be profitable.

This incidentally is how sales prices are usually set, they are not e.g. 1.2 * cost, they are set by where you believe you get the maximum profit from number of sales and price per item.

 

[Blue]

Lol okay. I have had this conversation too many times to bother trying to engage further. Have fun being mad that a service has value.

Lol okay. Have fun with your assumptions that the service has value to everyone since that's pretty trivially shown false. Especially if they ever do change editions, WotC historicially has never let the tools or forums for a previous edition stand, even when paid.

 

[AlViking]

the price they would need to charge is obviously dependent on the development costs. The price they actually do charge is based on a percentage of the book price however, which is much higher than the price would be if it actually were based on the development cost.

Ultimately the development costs do not factor in how they arrive at the price they charge, even though they set a lower limit below which the product would not be profitable.

This incidentally is how sales prices are usually set, they are not e.g. 1.2 * cost, they are set by where you believe you get the maximum profit from number of sales and price per item.

So you think they should make less profit or even potentially take a loss to keep you happy? Do you deny that like basicalyy other business they're operating costs have increased?

They aren't immune to inflation and at a certain point businesses have to pass on costs to the consumer.

 

[Lazybones]

I don't use DDB, but I just checked and the price in Fantasy Grounds (my VTT of choice) is also $39.99. I wasn't necessarily planning on getting this book, but the extra $ could be a factor in choosing future titles. I can say that D&D books are still my cheapest option for entertainment by far; I can buy a book for less than it costs me to play a round of golf, for example, and don't get me started on how much it costs to go to the movies. And I agree with those who said that we're getting more for our money now when inflation is factored in, when you consider page count and color art. Hopefully they will eventually still have sales/bundles for the 5.5 stuff; I got a ton of original 5e materials at a steep discount in Fantasy Grounds as part of their bundle offers.

 

[billd91]

Have fun with your assumptions that the service has value to everyone since that's pretty trivially shown false.

Glass houses and all that. Since getting the material on DDB does add value for some people (such as sharing, integration into a character builder, etc), it's also trivially proven false that "it's just a format change." It may offer options YOU aren't interested in, but that doesn't make it valueless.

 

[AlViking]

Lol okay. Have fun with your assumptions that the service has value to everyone since that's pretty trivially shown false. Especially if they ever do change editions, WotC historicially has never let the tools or forums for a previous edition stand, even when paid.

By "never" I assume you mean mess that was Gleemax? Because that's not at all comparable to DDB from a tech standpoint or the importance to the company.

I don't see anyone saying DDB has value to everyone, if it doesn't work for you buy books or pdfs from a different company instead. It has a lot of value to me and the people I play with.

 

[Clint_L]

Lol okay. Have fun with your assumptions that the service has value to everyone since that's pretty trivially shown false. Especially if they ever do change editions, WotC historicially has never let the tools or forums for a previous edition stand, even when paid.

But they aren't marketing it to everyone. They are offering three distinct options:

Option 1: Digital only, for those, like me, who just want it on DDB.

Option 2: Digital+Physical bundle, for those who, like OP want both.

Option 3: Physical only, for those who just want that.

Each of these is a distinct value proposition. I will make the case any day of the week that Option 1 offers enormous value for me, and given the rampant success of DDB, it apears that plenty of folks feel similarly.

I think it's been pretty clearly established that Option 3 offers competitive value, both in terms of the historical cost of official D&D books, adjusted for inflation, and in comparison to similar competitors, so it seems to be around what the market will sustain.

Option 2 is the one in question, and the OP has made it clear that, for them, it has crossed a rubicon where the cost is now greater than the value. I don't have a dog in that fight, so I am interested to see if they are correct. Given the way things have gone lately in terms of inflation, an increase from (typically) $10 to $15 for the addition of the digital rights doesn't seem egregious to me, but if enough folks agree with OP, WotC will have some hard decisions to make.

As for your worries about DDB essentially going away, I don't share them. I don't think they are likely to come true any time soon, and the value and convenience offered by the service FAR outweighs the risk, for me. I feel this way about susbscription services in general: they are extremely convenient, they save me a small fortune every year, they save me heaps of storage, and they produce far less waste. I think the world would be a much better place if humans stopped gathering so much stuff (as long as my miniatures collection isn't included, because I'm also a hypocrite).