Dead bodies of outsiders

[Darth Malakh]

yeah...and they are pretty nice to have around as skeletons or zombies because of their racial HD. Not as fragile as humanoid created undead.

Malakh

 

[Nail]

.....Between the time it's killed and the end of the summoning duration, it probably acts like a called creature. I.e. you can take off and use it's equipment for a little while, but it's not permanent.

Errr?? Whatever gave you that idea?

Magic Overview => Schools of Magic => Conjuration
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower.

Sorry, Vorpal.

 

[VorpalStare]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD_3.5e
Magic Overview => Schools of Magic => Conjuration
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower.


Yep. I stand corrected. I've had more than one DM get this wrong too. Bribing a monster with a summoned snack doesn't work very well, then does it?

 

[Nail]

Ah well.

The upside: You can give things to the summoned creatures, and they can't take it with them.

We used that with a summoned Bralani. An iron golem was attacking us, and one of it's weapon petrified who ever it struck. We had only one weapon capable of harming the golem - a adamantine construct-bane long sword. So, my Clr 11 summoned the bralani, and gave him the longsword.

You see, Bralani are immune to petrification.....

 

[moritheil]

I asked this question for outsiders who have left their native plane and traveled to the material plane.
I know the effects of killing a summoned monster, but does not know what happens to the body and equipment of an oustider who visits the material plane on his own will (e.g an outsider with planeshift as spell) and who was not summoned by any spell.

According to an article by Monte Cook, something that travels to the material plane is really there, just as with a called creature. As such, it dies, has its real gear, etc. just like a called creature.

 

[RonYon]

Calling, Death, and Conversion chamber

I have been working on a chamber for the calling, slayng, and reanimating of Outsiders.
I plan on using the lesser planar binding spell, and calling Outsiders and Elementals of animal inteligence or inherent evil. Im not under the impresion that that would make their slaughter ok, it just sits better with me. The corpes would be animated with the animate dead spell, and controled by a variety of means.
The only rules questionable area is the use of templates. There are a bunch of templates for use with most creature types, that could allow custom ordered creatures. For example, if I wanted a WilloWisp skeleton (magical flight is retained) then I would use a planar ally spell to summon one with a Elemental template, kill it with prepared spells/traps/poisens etc, and reanimate it. This seems really powerful, and if allowed potentially unbalancing. Obviously this cant happen without DM approval, as there may not even be any such creature in the infinate streatches of the planes, but given the discriptions I have read most creatures should have th plannar equivalents, thats what the templates are for.
Furthermore, the use of Shades or of certain Shadow Prc ablities to emulate a callling spell, would eliminate the argument aginst ordering any thing you wanted. Sure the creature would be less powerful and robust, but since it is being created out of shadow instead of called from another plane, it should be whatever the creator creates it as.

A differnt problem arises with the question of class levels.Can a caster specify that the called creature have Sorcerer levels , withen the HD limit of the spell?


I would like to have custom made monsters, but only if it isnt unbalancing.
What do you guys think?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

For example, if I wanted a WilloWisp skeleton (magical flight is retained)

A Will O' Wisp can't be made into a skeleton, as it doesn't have a skeleton. Though I suppose it could arguably be made into a zombie.

then I would use a planar ally spell to summon one with a Elemental template, kill it with prepared spells/traps/poisens etc, and reanimate it.

Note that you are petitioning your deity to send you a creature to help you out. As a DM, this would work once, then your deity would never allow this spell to work for you again. Also note that the alignment of the creature you ask for determines the alignment of the spell, meaning asking for an evil creature makes this an [Evil] spell.

This seems really powerful, and if allowed potentially unbalancing. Obviously this cant happen without DM approval, as there may not even be any such creature in the infinate streatches of the planes, but given the discriptions I have read most creatures should have th plannar equivalents, thats what the templates are for.

Where exactly have you read this? The templates are to give DMs options when world-building, not to suggest that every template exists in every world, as you yourself note.

Furthermore, the use of Shades or of certain Shadow Prc ablities to emulate a callling spell, would eliminate the argument aginst ordering any thing you wanted. Sure the creature would be less powerful and robust, but since it is being created out of shadow instead of called from another plane, it should be whatever the creator creates it as.

Shades and Shadow Conjuration can only emulate Conjuration (Summoning) and Conjuration (Creation) spells. Since they emulate summoning but not calling, any creature you create with these spells dissipates into nothing once killed, and can't be reanimated, period.

A differnt problem arises with the question of class levels.Can a caster specify that the called creature have Sorcerer levels , withen the HD limit of the spell?

I would rule no.

I would like to have custom made monsters, but only if it isnt unbalancing.
What do you guys think?

I think you're bending these spells so far out of whack they aren't even recognizable. If I were your DM, I'd deny all of it, then suggest that instead you write up a custom (ie. researchable) spell proposal of your own devising, then you and I could balance it, put it at an appropriate level, and add it to the game as something your PC developed through his own research.

 

[moritheil]

I have been working on a chamber for the calling, slayng, and reanimating of Outsiders.

This seems really powerful, and if allowed potentially unbalancing.

I would like to have custom made monsters, but only if it isnt unbalancing.
What do you guys think?

Nice hijack.

I think you answered your own question right then and there. If it seems so obviously unbalanced, even to you as you think it up, there's a very good chance that it is in fact unbalanced.

Let me ask you this: Why do you go to all these considerable lengths to summon things and then kill them, only to raise them? Is it because you desire flying skeletons, but don't want to have to cast the fly spell on a bunch of normal skeletons?

It seems that the intent is to do an end run around having to do that.

 

[RonYon]

<H6>Shades

Illusion (Shadow) Level: Sor/Wiz 9

This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it mimics sorcerer and wizard conjuration spells of 8th level or lower. The illusory conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nonbelievers, and nondamaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers.

Shadow Conjuration

Illusion (Shadow)

Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: See text Effect: See text Duration: See text Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with); varies; see text Spell Resistance: Yes; see text

You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

I am sorry for hijacking this thread-It seemed well answered, and my post seemed in keeping with the threads theme.
I will continue here in order to make myself clear.Perhaps I will link this to else where, thus ending the hijack...
The above SRD quote demonstrates that Shades differs from shadow conjuration in that it allows the mimicing of conjuration spells of 8th and lower, were as the Shadow Conjuration specifies only summoning and creation spells.
This way one could "logically" make up any creature you wanted.
I dont know if a willowisp has a skeleton-Maybe not, that is up to the DM, as I dont think it is covered in the description.
The Planar Ally spell is indeed an apeal to a higher power for help-My higher powers are the Abstract pilosophies concerned with bringing Death and Shadow To every corner of the world.
I dont think "they" will mind me slaughtering outsiders to that end, and even if I worshiped and (evil) god, I dont think She would mind either.In any case, this would be a good time to be a True Necro,assuming they get the Planar Binding spells.

The part about the planes being infinate is just board talk, which is prone to inaccuracies. Mea culpa. Further more, the idea that an infinate plane would have to have every thing one could think of in it is just silly, and it is my very own sillyness.
So, leave that be for a moment, and instead picture someone using bardic knowledge and/or one or more of the many differnt information spells,to find out just who or what is out there.
There may be Fire Wolfs and Air Sharks, and either of those would be worth having.

Now why do these things, instead of say casting flight on some skeletons?
Why not buy boots of flying instead of taming a griffon?
Why use a Returning Axe of Frost instead of a Bow of Flame?
Why build a Gish instead of a Cleric?
Fun, effectiveness,flavor. Every Necromancer I have played has been for fun, with power at the back seat. Lots of spells and coin would go into a Chamber like this-power better spent in other ways, if power is all one seeks.I would rather have an unusual item than an effective one, but I would like to have both. I even take into consideration the powers that be, choosing targets that are small and "unloved", to avoid pissing them off. Still, if the DM were to use my Chamber as a plot hook, I would be honored. Hopefully I would survive it, if not oh well...
All of this stems from me playing my character as the specialist that I see him as.If you ask a him how to get to the otherside of a gorge, he is going to use the tool he is most comfy with-Undead Servants. He might throw one across with a rope, set them to building a bridge or march them into it until it is filled(ha). Once he has been faced with this once, he might think that a flying undead mount would be handy. Seeing as he is a caster and a scholar, he would think to buy an appropriate corpes,before he would go looking for one to fight.
No matter if the body is available to buy or not, the question is raised-how is such an item produced? And thus the plan for the Chamber, a logical solution to a problem that plauges Necromancers, be the be one or a nation of them.
So in short, the Chamber was created to provide cold bodies of useful stock, for busy Necromancers, not as a plan to cause imbalance in the game.

 

[MoonZar]

If a party of adventurers kills an outsider on the material plane what happens to the body and the equipment of the outsider?

The dead body:
a) acts like a dead human body
b) decays faster than a normal dead body
c) crumbles instantly to dust

The magical equipment
a) can be picked up by everyone and can be used if it fits
b) also instantly crumbles to dust
c) is planeshifted back to the native plane of this outsider

If the dead body of an outsider does not instantly crumbles to dust does an animate dead spell create a skeleton or a zombie out of the dead body of the outsider?
Does this undead possess the same advantages (e.g. attributes, DR, immunities) as the outsider?

I think that the body go back to his plane if it had been summoned. If he's born in the plane the body stay and rot.