Level Up (A5E) Deadeye feat and ricochet maneuver

PauloR

Explorer
Pleaae help.me.understsndnthis feat amd maneuver interaction.
The deadeye feat gives you access to the ricochet maneuver, which let's you make your next attack ignoring cover on the target.

All good, but the 2nd bullet on the deadeye feal also says that target with cover doesn't have an AC bonus against your ranged attacks.

Doesn't it render the ricochet maneuver just moot? Why would a feat gives me access to a maneuver that let's me spend exertion to ignore cover if the feat already ignores cover?
Am I missing something here?
 

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Pleaae help.me.understsndnthis feat amd maneuver interaction.
The deadeye feat gives you access to the ricochet maneuver, which let's you make your next attack ignoring cover on the target.

All good, but the 2nd bullet on the deadeye feal also says that target with cover doesn't have an AC bonus against your ranged attacks.

Doesn't it render the ricochet maneuver just moot? Why would a feat gives me access to a maneuver that let's me spend exertion to ignore cover if the feat already ignores cover?
Am I missing something here?
I don’t have it on front of me so I can only go by what you’ve written here, but from what you’ve written can ignore total cover.
 

There is a measure of overlap, but not entirely.
Deadeye lets your shots ignore the AC bonus from any cover (it does not exclude total), so within that, you won't need Ricochet much of the time, so it does feel like a bit of a loss.
However: Things in total cover usually have broken LoS and cannot be directly targeted, plus the things that may allow you (like indirectly firing by selecting a space instead of the target) cause shots to have disadvantage.

Ricochet allows you to bypass all but total enclosure (the examples being in a closed room with no openings, or inside a sphere of force), and eliminates the disadvantage from targeting something you cannot see. Someone invisible, with a roofed stone wall between you and them is entirely vulnerable to your ricochet if there's a back entrance or any hole that could be shot through in SOME direction as long as you can locate them somehow... which costs you no focus/exertion thanks to Deadeye.
 

Good point about the ricochet NOT costing exertion due to the feat (I completely missed that). In light of that fact, the niche where ricochet does help (as exemplified by @Boldo) makes it not feel like a wasted space
 

On a second thought, I think the overlap still bother me a bit. I think ricochet for n
0 exertion covers very well the talent to shoot through cover that the feat historically offers (and i like the idea that only one attack can surpass cover and consumes the archer bonus action to "carefully aim").
That said I'm stepping into homebrew territory and wish to substitute the bullet of the fest that reads "Cover does not grant your targets an AC bonus when you make attacks against them with a ranged weapon." I'm thinking of one of the two:
1. You ranged attacks don't suffer disadvantage if your target is within 5 ft of you;
2. Straight up +1 Dex

What do you think?
 


There is a measure of overlap, but not entirely.
Deadeye lets your shots ignore the AC bonus from any cover (it does not exclude total), so within that, you won't need Ricochet much of the time, so it does feel like a bit of a loss.
However: Things in total cover usually have broken LoS and cannot be directly targeted, plus the things that may allow you (like indirectly firing by selecting a space instead of the target) cause shots to have disadvantage.

Ricochet allows you to bypass all but total enclosure (the examples being in a closed room with no openings, or inside a sphere of force), and eliminates the disadvantage from targeting something you cannot see.
Besides what you already noticed, please also notice that Ricochet requires a bonus action to be activated and only applies to the next ranged attack, while Deadeye lets you ignore the target's AC bonus due to cover for EVERY ranged attack.

This means that the overlap is present only when you use Ricochet, but that's only for 1 attack per round. If you can shoot more than once you can't benefit from Ricochet more than once per round, but you can still attack an enemy under cover (not total) and they won't get the usual AC bonus for being in cover
 

My angle is a different one. I think ignoring cover on every attack for free is too cheap. I think you need to invest something (a bonus action and only one attack per turn) to be able to ignore the target being behind an arrowslit.
An arrow hitting you through the hole of a locked door is a special event. I don't want an 11th level fighter to put three arrows a turn in the chest of a poor bastard hiding behind a castle wall.
I know the original sharpshooter ignores all but total cover in all attacks, but i love how ricochet is written to bypass even more cover than the feat would provide, but requires some investment from the archer.
 

My angle is a different one. I think ignoring cover on every attack for free is too cheap. I think you need to invest something (a bonus action and only one attack per turn) to be able to ignore the target being behind an arrowslit.
An arrow hitting you through the hole of a locked door is a special event. I don't want an 11th level fighter to put three arrows a turn in the chest of a poor bastard hiding behind a castle wall.
I know the original sharpshooter ignores all but total cover in all attacks, but i love how ricochet is written to bypass even more cover than the feat would provide, but requires some investment from the archer.
Two things here:
1) the investment is very significant IMO since it's a Feat. That means that normally you must sacrifice an ASI to get it.
2) firing through the hole of a locked door definitely qualifies as total cover IMO. And also as total encasing, since unless the hole is quite large, an arrow won't pass through it. Regardless of the second point, no targeting would be possible and no 3 arrows/round for the 11th level fighter
 

I gave you three examples of shots, target behind an arrowslit, through the hole of a locked door and behind a castle wall. Two of those are listed on the Adventurer's guide as examples of 3/4 cover (and thus would provide no AC against a deadeye shooter without the ricochet maneuver) and could be shot normally 3 times a round.
The shot through the hole.of a locked door I agree would require the use of the ricochet maneuver to even be possible and thus only once per round.

The point still stands: a target that is safely 3/4 cover behind a castle wall is nonchalantly (is that even a word?) Shot 3 times a round and i thinknits a bit too much.
 

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