Dealing with equipment dependency in D&D

[hong]

I’ll probably try to put together such a system later, but I was curious whether anyone had done something similar. Also, would you personally be interested in using such a system? Are there any other advantages or disadvantages that come to mind? I can think of a couple besides the ones I listed, but I want to see what others come up with.

When the creeping HEROization of D&D is complete, then all classes will have the ability to gain supernatural powerups, not just a few. In the meantime, there's imbued magic.

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/imbued_magic.htm

 

[diaglo]

farmers and other peasants have to keep track of their stuff too.


PC goes to Farm A. buys chickens for use as bag of chicks/great cleave/etc...

Farmer A only has 4 chickens. he uses them for eggs. he has little money. but is after some discussion willing to sell chickens to PC Great Cleave.

now Farmer A has a handful of coin.... what is he going to do for eggs tomorrow?

PC Great Cleave leaves... uses his trick against monster nearby. returns to Farmer A to buy more chickens.

Farmer A had to do the rest of his chores so hasn't bought new chickens yet.


He tells PC Great Cleave to go to another Farm.

soon PC Great Cleave has cleared out all the Farms in the area of chickens.

no chickens, no eggs, eventually Farms have to find someone or something to eat.............

sometimes it is nice not to keep track of items... but other times it helps keep the game in check.

 

[DragonLancer]

For example, one could replace the Cloak of Resistance (a ubiquitous item) by providing PCs with a +1 resistance bonus every third level or so, until they have a +5 resistance bonus. And at every level that the PCs received the bonus, they would have appropriately less wealth (so, if the PCs had a +5 resistance bonus at 15th level, they would have 25,000 less gp). The same could be done with enchancements to stats (mimicking the Belt of Strength, Gloves of Dexterity, etc.), deflection bonuses to AC (Ring of Protection), natural armor bonuses (Amulet of Natural Armor), etc.

The problem here as I see it, is that you replace a dependence on items with characters who are too powerful. Theres nothing to say that a given character will have a (as an example) +5 cloak of resistence at that level. So the power balance of the character changes.

 

[StalkingBlue]

The unfortunate side affect of the heroic paths of Midnight is that they merely replace magical items with built in abilities, while also providing a chartable, predictable advancement, rather than a hodgepodge of mismatched items.

And what is the benefit of a hodgepodge of items IYO?

Personally I've found heroic paths in Midnight a wonderful way to lift the game away from the eternal lists-keeping and gold-counting and focus on the characters instead. I'm currently working with one of my players to tailor one particular (sorta weak and strange) path to the requirements of my game and to the player's character concept. We like that sort of thing.

For my taste most of the heroic paths provide a rather too hodge-podge assortment of powers, *sigh* - a bunch of spell-like abilities for example isn't the most original or most stylish thing you come up with. But of course every DM is free to customise.

Actually, I felt it would have made for a better game if Midnight had not introduced the heroic paths at all -- that way the characters would have to rely on their innate powers and the rare magical items;

Would make for a nice game if you ban spellcasting PCs. Without heroic paths, non-spellcasters have no way of keeping up with spellcasters under Midnight rules. (In fact even with paths, channelers are overpowered, but that's a different topic.)

this the heroic paths, all you've done is said, "Well, you don't get any items, but you get all the powers of the items, so the whole thing is a wash."

Hm, actually no and no.

Like them or not, the Midnight heroic paths don't give powers equivalent, or even similar, to standard DnD magical equipment.

In our play experience Midnight is radically different from a game in a more traditional DnD setting, both in flavour and in balance.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

The problem here as I see it, is that you replace a dependence on items with characters who are too powerful. Theres nothing to say that a given character will have a (as an example) +5 cloak of resistence at that level. So the power balance of the character changes.

I don't think it would affect balance as long as the value of abilities + value of items is the same as the usual amount of items the characters would normally have at that point?

It would make the characters themselves more powerful. But their overall level of power would be pretty similar to a character with the same powers in item form?

The boosts should be of the same type as regular items for this to work. For example, the innate save boost should be a resistance bonus, an innate stat boost is an enhancement. So no stacking the innate power with items or spells.

I'd let them choose their own powers on a GP basis rather than having a fixed path. Think this allows for more flexibility.

I can see that the built in items are going to be very hard to remove, which could make them much more valuable in certain situations.

 

[StalkingBlue]

In my current campaign I just let the players pick up "supernatural abiltiies" instead of magic items, accounting their wealth according to the DMG recommendations. But that has a lot to do with campaign flavor, really.
If you want to do something similar, keep in mind that those items are supposed to cost double since they take no item space.

So do you give your players the free run of all DMG items as abilities or do you have a system, is it subject to DM approval? If so what are your guidleines, if any?

 

[Stormborn]

My current campaign has an unusual magical nature, a currently low magic world with a high magic past. The PCs have little chance to buy or find magic items and as they increase levels I was worried about their power levels vs. the typical CRs and ECLs of DnD.

So I adapted the idea of Heroic Paths from Midnight to compensate. The Players didn't know that, however. They are currently at 6th and 7th levels and have in one way or another began their paths.

The fighter found a magic ring that gave a +1 to parry attempts (a variant rule for us). Later the ring began to "wake up" and she started having dreams about fighting and training. As she rises in levels the ring is getting more and more powerful, but I am only telling her about it one level at a time. Its basically a kind of Item Familiar, currently its a +1 rapier that also grants Alterness and has an empathinc bond with her. She now knows its getting better, but she has no idea what's coming next.

The bard remembered a story about a hero who ate a dragons heart and gained increased powers. So he and the ranger ate the heart of the dragon they just killed. The ranger has begun to display some unusual abiliites, including glowing eyes that grant darkvision and sheding his skin to get a +1 Natural AC bonus. He has also begun to role play personality changes to go along with the physical ones.

Basically I set these things out and wait for them to find them and take the bait, but knowing the Players I tend to know what bait they will take. They are increasing in power, but have the same joy of discovery of the unknown they would get with finding items.

Balance is a factor, and I am doing several things to try and keep that in check. I currently think that at the moment they maybe a little on the over powered side, but since I don't plan any new abilites for them for a level or so it should balance out soon.

 

[StalkingBlue]

The boosts should be of the same type as regular items for this to work. For example, the innate save boost should be a resistance bonus, an innate stat boost is an enhancement. So no stacking the innate power with items or spells.

I'd let them choose their own powers on a GP basis rather than having a fixed path. Think this allows for more flexibility.

I can see that the built in items are going to be very hard to remove, which could make them much more valuable in certain situations.

Good points - the fact that abilities don't take 'spaces' the way items do might affect balance though, assuming the PCs are wealthy enough to afford lots of abilities. Doubling DMG prices, as suggested above, might work.


Flexibility vs pre-written: this is a matter of campaign style and play style and personal taste I guess. Flexibility is nice to have as a player, OTOH if well-designed pre-printed progressions like paths can make for more diversity and interesting flavour.

For example, if AC bonuses were to be had for gold in my Midnight game, all the PCs would be getting them. Instead, one gets AC bonuses and DR, another was preternaturally fast, a third is a gifted healer who will one day be able to revive the dead, a fourth expands into the magic realm and a fifth slowly grows into a crusader-type warrior knight. Alternatively one could be a shapechanger, a fast-talker or one of many other things.

 

[Felix]

Do what I do: Play a forsaker.

The last time the party was captured and stripped of our goodies, the paladin, wizard and ranger nearly wept themselves to sleep knowing they lost their fullplate, spellbook, and kewl bow. I was out like 500 gp for a masterwork greatsword and armor. One encounter later and I was back up to full value! Sweet!

Caught me without my weapons, have you? I wield a chair! (And as far as DR is concerned, it's a +4 Chair!)

 

[diaglo]

had one player in a game i was a player in... say his character would rather die than lose his stuff.

i don't think i've ever heard anyone have such a hissy fit.

heck, if he felt that strongly about his things... he shouldn't be an adventurer. there is risk to adventuring. you are risking more than just your items when you go bumping around in the dark.