Olaf the Stout
Legend
helium3 said:It's so last week.
The best suggestions i've seen so far are to fashion encounters that make fireball a less useful tactic. It can be done in a variety of different ways.
Such as?
Olaf the Stout
Dealing With The Fun Of Area of Effect Spells
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Such as?
Olaf the Stout
JiffyPopTart
Bree-Yark
Olaf the Stout said:
1. Underwater.
2. In darkness.
3. In an extremely dense forest.
4. Against things that spread out.
5. Against things using cover (trench warfare).
6. Being surrounded instead of everything coming from one direction.
7. Invisible or hiding opponents that immediately enter melee without charging.
8. A hit-party that has been pre-buffed with Protection from Fire.
9. An attack by an illusionary squad to draw out the fireball before the real squad emerges.
10. Outranging the fireball and attacking from FAR away.
That took all of 3 minutes. Have you read anything that people have been posting?
DS
Gort
Explorer
Keep in mind that fireball multiplies its damage the more opponents it catches in the radius. IE, a fireball that catches 20 skeletons does 100D6 damage (average 350) while one that catches one colossal skeleton does 5D6 (average 17.5).
Simply use one big monster. Also, keep in mind that although you don't want to just use fire elementals (as you shouldn't - don't alter your tactics to match the players without very good reason) a large number of monsters are resistant or flat-out immune to fire. I think it's probably the most common immunity, come to think of it. Demons and devils are all completely immune, for instance.
I shouldn't worry about it too much to be honest. After all, those wizards are glass cannons. Sooner or later they'll be exposed and get charged by something with levels of barbarian, and get cut to ribbons.
Simply use one big monster. Also, keep in mind that although you don't want to just use fire elementals (as you shouldn't - don't alter your tactics to match the players without very good reason) a large number of monsters are resistant or flat-out immune to fire. I think it's probably the most common immunity, come to think of it. Demons and devils are all completely immune, for instance.
I shouldn't worry about it too much to be honest. After all, those wizards are glass cannons. Sooner or later they'll be exposed and get charged by something with levels of barbarian, and get cut to ribbons.
Celebrim
Legend
I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you stop sending mook swarms at the PC's you are basically unfairly punishing a PC for being good at what he's good at. So, give the sorcerer oppurtunity to shine.
But be aware that the RAW overestimate the CR of mook swarms versus parties with a level more than about 2 over monster CR. If it wouldn't be the overlapping fireballs, it would be the party's high AC, or the fighter's great cleave. If you continue with mook swarms be aware that you are giving out more XP than the encounters really deserve.
I find it works well for mooks to calculate thier EL at +1 per doubling of gang size rather than +2.
But yes, if you really want to challenge the party, you are going to have to mix up your challenges. Arcanes are weak against ambushers, poisoners, grapplers, and creatures with relatively high energy resistance or SR. Arcanes that rely on evocation spells are also weak against brutes (though brutes in general go down easily to SoD spells).
Your mook swarms were particularly disadvantaged because they were dumb creatures incapable of anticipating magic. Intelligent creatures will use tactics designed to negate magical attacks. They'll use missile weapons and attack from behind prepared positions with 90% cover. They'll distribute their fighting positions over a larger area to avoid being caught in a single 'artillery burst'. They use ready actions and attack spell casters while they are trying to cast. They'll wield tower shields to protect themselves until they can reach melee range and advance under cover of missile fire. They cast smoke bombs to screen thier movements, and flaming oil to annoy and distract the party. They'll sic fast moving trained war animals on spell casters and archers.
But be aware that the RAW overestimate the CR of mook swarms versus parties with a level more than about 2 over monster CR. If it wouldn't be the overlapping fireballs, it would be the party's high AC, or the fighter's great cleave. If you continue with mook swarms be aware that you are giving out more XP than the encounters really deserve.
I find it works well for mooks to calculate thier EL at +1 per doubling of gang size rather than +2.
But yes, if you really want to challenge the party, you are going to have to mix up your challenges. Arcanes are weak against ambushers, poisoners, grapplers, and creatures with relatively high energy resistance or SR. Arcanes that rely on evocation spells are also weak against brutes (though brutes in general go down easily to SoD spells).
Your mook swarms were particularly disadvantaged because they were dumb creatures incapable of anticipating magic. Intelligent creatures will use tactics designed to negate magical attacks. They'll use missile weapons and attack from behind prepared positions with 90% cover. They'll distribute their fighting positions over a larger area to avoid being caught in a single 'artillery burst'. They use ready actions and attack spell casters while they are trying to cast. They'll wield tower shields to protect themselves until they can reach melee range and advance under cover of missile fire. They cast smoke bombs to screen thier movements, and flaming oil to annoy and distract the party. They'll sic fast moving trained war animals on spell casters and archers.
Olaf the Stout
Legend
Sabathius42 said:
Yes I have. I was just wondering if helium3 had anything else to add that wasn't already stated in a previous post.
Thanks for your list by the way, it summarised a lot of my thoughts and ideas that were generated by this thread.
Olaf the Stout
