Dealing With The Fun Of Area of Effect Spells

[Schmoe]

Just vary the encounters a bit. There's nothing wrong with the magic-users blasting the hordes now and then. After all, they shine in crowd control situations. But make sure that there are a couple of higher level folks involved and that all encounters don't play out as one big horde charging the party. Get creative. Get wild. Get... TWO hordes!

Seriously though, just change things up.

- Instead of charging in a single mob, charge from multiple directions.

- Instead of charging, skirmish (spread out say 10-15' apart) and use ranged attacks.

- Include leaders who can withstand a couple of fireballs.

- Have a group of orcs led by a Flesh Golem charge the party, while a skirmish line of 5 or 6 archers, backed up by the witch doctor, pins the party down.

- Use terrain to limit the effectiveness of AoE spells (heavy woods, twisting dungeon corridors, small rooms with doors, rock formations, etc)

- Use sneaky opponents and ambushers who close before the magic-users can respond

There are plenty of ways to ensure that combat is varied and fun for all. AoE spells are at their most effective in open spaces at range against hordes of low-level enemies. If you keep throwing those kinds of encounters against the party, it stands to reason AoE spells will remain the most effective tactic.

 

[shilsen]

It's not very often that the PC's will be facing more than 4 combats in a day so the Sorcerer could cast 1 Fireball every combat and still have one to spare. And that's just his 3rd level spells. Sure, the other spells won't be as good at dealing out the damage as a Fireball but by then they should only be needed to mop up the leftovers.

Olaf the Stout

You think that's a problem? I'm running an Eberron game where the PCs have 1 fight a day most of the time, and 2 sometimes. They've had three fights in something like 2-3 sessions out of 50. And with two druids and one wizard in the party, that means Flame Strikes and Fireballs fly around all the time.

There's no one solution, but rather a mix of them. Have situations/terrain where AoE spells aren't always usable or completely effective. Don't use hordes of mooks. Don't use average hp for enemies (my PCs are very buff, so I use 75% of max on all hit dice).

And sometimes have fights where they can fry lots of enemies with the AoE spells so that they can enjoy them sometimes.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

If enemy spellcasters have the party in position to hit with a AOE spell then I lay into them. I fondly remember the time when the whole party, unknownly, put themselves into a perfect line for a Lightning Bolt, with a bounce that make half of them get hit twice.

Man that was nice.

 

[Lanefan]

So the question is now, how do I respond? I don't want to be mean and suddenly give everyone Improved Evasion or Immunity to Fire and I don't want all the baddies to walk 30ft apart from each other either. At the same time I don't want my game to become predictable with Fireball becoming the solution to every problem in combat.

But...but...but...Fireball *is* the solution to every problem in combat! Didn't they tell you that in Basic Training: Wizard?

Lanefan

 

[frankthedm]

So the question is now, how do I respond? I don't want to be mean and suddenly give everyone Improved Evasion or Immunity to Fire and I don't want all the baddies to walk 30ft apart from each other either. At the same time I don't want my game to become predictable with Fireball becoming the solution to every problem in combat.

Well, once any spell that could be problematic is in the game, it is hard to deal with. Fireball is a staple spell that IMHO was given far too much range and area. Now TBH 3E HP are fairly high compared to other editions, so toning back evocations spells is kind of cruel, but IMHO a 10’ or 15’ radius and medium range is needed if you want a game setting where troops can march is some semblance of a formation. This certainly makes it more in line with the nerfed 3.5 lightning bolt.

I could have the party cop some Fireballs back. They have already experienced one and it wasn't pretty. Everyone was caught in the blast and 2 characters were nearly killed. With 2 Sorcerers in the party they can dish out the damage but they can't really take it. This is a good "solution" every once in a while but at the same time it's not much fun to die simply because you rolled crappy once on your Reflex save.

I'm sorry, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The party knows that fireball is a good spell, the NPCs do as well. Hopefully the party will be casting resist energy fire. If they don’t, they die.

 

[Agamon]

But...but...but...Fireball *is* the solution to every problem in combat! Didn't they tell you that in Basic Training: Wizard?

Just in combat??

 

[Raloc]

So I guess no one likes wild magic anymore?

 

[Hypersmurf]

- Use terrain to limit the effectiveness of AoE spells (heavy woods, twisting dungeon corridors, small rooms with doors, rock formations, etc)

And vision effects - darkness, fog, and the like. You can still cast a fireball, but are you sure you know where it's going?

I've had a couple of encounters where this worked out well. One was in a huge room (the above-ground part of the Temple of Elemental Evil) where the windows and doors had been completely blacked out by the orcs living there. The orcs all had 60 foot darkvision. The PCs had one dwarf who could see, and everyone else who couldn't.

The PCs quickly learned that light sources just meant the orcs could see them from even further away than 60 feet. The monk discovered that charging off into the blackness well ahead of the rest of the party was a Bad Idea.

The sorcerer didn't use any fireballs, because he didn't want to waste them on empty space... or worse, hit the monk...

Another one involved a shaft, extending both up and down from the level the PCs were on, and a levitating lizardman archer. When the PCs started to get close, he cast an Obscuring Mist and vanished up the shaft.

The sorcerer ran to the edge of the shaft, estimated how fast the lizardman had been moving, and cast a Fireball blindly into the mist, aimed to detonate about where he thought the lizardman would be.

Unfortunately, about ten feet above him was the platform the lizardman had hauled himself onto, and the bead smacked into it and detonated prematurely.

On the bright side, the fireball cleared away a lot of the fog...

-Hyp.

 

[Drowbane]

Slightly related to this thread here about Sorcerer's vs Wizards is a new challenge I faced for the first time as a DM last night, multiple AoE spells. One Sorcerer fired off 6 Fireballs in 5 combats (over 2 days in game time) and the other Sorcerer let go with a few Snowball Swarms.

Left in the wake were over 30 Zombies and Skeletons, 2 Zombie Ogre, 1 Troll, a CR 10 Sorcerer and about 20 Fiendish Locathah. The damage that the other 3 party members contributed was quite small in comparison.

Now a few of the situations were perfect for AoE spells like these. The Zombies and Skeletons were in one big mass, charging (well charging for Zombies!) towards the PC's and the Zombie Ogres and Troll were also right next to each other. Only once was a PC caught in the crossfire. The rogue got caught in the first Fireball that was cast (and failed his save on a 1!) which took him down to single digit hit points.

So the question is now, how do I respond? I don't want to be mean and suddenly give everyone Improved Evasion or Immunity to Fire and I don't want all the baddies to walk 30ft apart from each other either. At the same time I don't want my game to become predictable with Fireball becoming the solution to every problem in combat.

I could have the party cop some Fireballs back. They have already experienced one and it wasn't pretty. Everyone was caught in the blast and 2 characters were nearly killed. With 2 Sorcerers in the party they can dish out the damage but they can't really take it. This is a good "solution" every once in a while but at the same time it's not much fun to die simply because you rolled crappy once on your Reflex save.

So, what do I do now?

Olaf the Stout

Whats the problem again?

Welcome to D&D, mate.

 

[Bad Paper]

Do everything you can to limit sorcerer's sightline. One smokestick can ruin this guy's whole fight, and make him wish he had taken gust of wind instead of scorching ray. OK, well, maybe not that extreme, but yeah, you get the point.