Spells: do you prefer Rotes or Dynamic?

[RenleyRenfield]

Agree. In a game run on a higher level than Hack'n'Slash, being able to tailor your spells to the specific situation is key (especially for Machiavellian intrigue / narrative / more complex heavy role-playing emphasis-games like ours).

So what about having a 'catalog' of spells. But under each spell is a list of modifications the character can perform with that spell?

It makes each spell longer and more fussy. But it prevents the overly vaguesauce of "pick a concept + powertier and roll with modifiers and just guess at what its effects do" that some ad-hoc spell casting game have...

 

[Pedantic]

So what about having a 'catalog' of spells. But under each spell is a list of modifications the character can perform with that spell?

It makes each spell longer and more fussy. But it prevents the overly vaguesauce of "pick a concept + powertier and roll with modifiers and just guess at what its effects do" that some ad-hoc spell casting game have...

You've reminded me of Green Ronin's True Sorcery system, which I adored back in the day. It has a very comprehensive spell construction/modification system that allows for the creation of spell variants on the fly. Honestly, gives me misty-eyed nostalgia a little bit, because I just can't imagine anyone wanting to bother with that level of mechanical specificity in a modern product.

 

[Thomas Shey]

You've reminded me of Green Ronin's True Sorcery system, which I adored back in the day. It has a very comprehensive spell construction/modification system that allows for the creation of spell variants on the fly. Honestly, gives me misty-eyed nostalgia a little bit, because I just can't imagine anyone wanting to bother with that level of mechanical specificity in a modern product.

I don't know how it is in play, but the one in OLD isn't bad on paper.

 

[Ashley Cartwright]

I like systems that have both, but where even the rotes allow for a great deal of creativity in how the power may be used.

 

[Ulfgeir]

I prefer rote spells, as it is simpler. But, with the following caveats:

• I hate Vancian magic. Forgetting spells after you cast them is just weird and does not make sense. Having to prepare what spells you will be able to cast this day (in exclusion of other spells) in advance also makes no sense. If you know the spell, you should be able to cast it (as long as you have Mana or other such resources available).
• Pre-made spells often tends to be quite narrow in their focus and application. Like 95% of the spells being combat-spells, and very few utility-spells.

Now there are som other thoughts as well. The magic system should support the lore for the game. So if magic is supposed to be rare, then you should not see tons of magical items, and magic users every´where (Like MERP, where "everyone" had extensive spell-lists...And they broke their own rules in other ways as well ).

The ubiquity of magic would also have to be taken into account in how the society would be shaped.

If you have a system where magic is unreliable and or not well understood, then dynamic is probably better.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Rote. It is not always about game mechanics but your campaign world and world building. You have a magic guild, you have a magic school, you have an apprentice system, then you have a magic system that will be rote, the same spells taught the same way over and over again for generations.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Rote. It is not always about game mechanics but your campaign world and world building. You have a magic guild, you have a magic school, you have an apprentice system, then you have a magic system that will be rote, the same spells taught the same way over and over again for generations.

That could just as easily be about techniques as individual spells.

 

[Ashley Cartwright]

Rote. It is not always about game mechanics but your campaign world and world building. You have a magic guild, you have a magic school, you have an apprentice system, then you have a magic system that will be rote, the same spells taught the same way over and over again for generations.

Magic guild that teaches the fundamentals of magic, and every magic user develops her own specific methods that can be used in a variety of ways.

 

[Hand of Evil]

That could just as easily be about techniques as individual spells.

Magic guild that teaches the fundamentals of magic, and every magic user develops her own specific methods that can be used in a variety of ways.

It is much like Academia; you have a society that requires a controlled and proven way of doing something. Those that do not follow the prescribed method are shunned and seen as radicals.

 

[Starfox]

I've read the thread with interest. I'm not settled on rote or not-rote magic, it depends on the genre. I would like to prefer a non-rote magic and spell design to go with rote systems, but I've never found a system that I liked.
I have particularly fond memories of TORG's Aysle, I love the state table you traced a path on - but it was much too dependent on chance and good rolls, and all the rote spells given with the game that were supposedly created using this systems were examples of bad craftsmanship.

The ubiquity of magic would also have to be taken into account in how the society would be shaped.

This is one of the things that confuses me about Tolkien. Middle Earth is supposed to be low magic, but wherever the heroes go, magic creatures and items pop out of the woodwork. MERP actually did this, with loads and loads of magic, but most GMs then expanded this to all parts of the world, which made it very un-Tolkienian.