How many "steps" is too many?

Having not played Daggerheart, I questions about the damage threshold step

How is the Threshold to determine 1 or 2 wounds determined?

It sounds a little bit like the board game Frag, but my guess is that it is not the same system.
 

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Think of it like baseball versus basketball.

Traditional RPGs often resemble baseball. One player “bats” (takes their turn), while everyone else watches. The system pauses between turns. Each action is self-contained. Even when the steps are simple, they’re siloed—everyone else is just waiting for their turn at the plate.

Daggerheart plays more like basketball. The moment one player moves, others are reacting. A roll generates Hope or Fear—now the GM has a narrative opening. A hit lands—now the target decides whether to burn armor. The flow is continuous. There’s no clean division between actor and observer because the system keeps inviting engagement from both sides. It’s not just about who has the ball—it’s about who responds to what happens next.

This is getting away from steps and more into initiative, but...

I would struggle to find a metaphor that makes this sort of initiative-free game less appealing. Baseball is a game where everyone gets to bat, even if their jobs in the field aren't the same. Basketball is a game that is often dominated by the star player(s), and the teammates who are lucky enough to get off the bench are remembered by how well they played sidekick. The latter is not an ideal TTRPG to me.
 

Having not played Daggerheart, I questions about the damage threshold step

How is the Threshold to determine 1 or 2 wounds determined?
Thresholds set by armor and level. Some special abilities also adjust it.
If unarmored, it's (level)/(2×Level), no reduction uses.

It's 0—3, actually.
if damage roll ≤ 0, 0 HP
if 1—(low threshold-1): 1 HP
if (low threshold) — (high threshold - 1): 2 HP
if (high threshold) to infinity: 3 HP

Optional rule changes the last line to if (high threshold) — ((2×High Threshold) -1): 3 HP
and adds: (2×(High Threshold))—infinity: 4 HP

Armor Points set by armor and by some special abilities. When used, reduce the HP loss by 1 in exchange for marking an armor use.

It's not going to be terribly common to get 0 damage. Seraphs can use a divinity die to reduce the damage (which I believe is the rolled bit, not HP loss). Some monsters get to make a roll for how much damage is stopped before comparing.
 

This is getting away from steps and more into initiative, but...

I would struggle to find a metaphor that makes this sort of initiative-free game less appealing. Baseball is a game where everyone gets to bat, even if their jobs in the field aren't the same. Basketball is a game that is often dominated by the star player(s), and the teammates who are lucky enough to get off the bench are remembered by how well they played sidekick. The latter is not an ideal TTRPG to me.
I do think initiative is relevant to this discussion—not as a digression, but as part of the broader question of how game mechanics guide participation. When steps are designed to shape flow—especially in reactive systems—then their number becomes less important than their function. In Daggerheart, for example, the steps aren’t just sequential tasks—they cue interaction, adjust tone, and shift momentum. That’s why I brought up initiative structure: it’s not a separate topic, it’s part of how that momentum is shared and sustained.

And just to clarify, the sports analogy wasn’t meant as a direct comparison. It’s not that TTRPGs are like basketball or baseball—it’s that they can resemble certain pacing models. Baseball as a metaphor for turn-based, sequential play. Basketball for reactive, fluid engagement. It’s just a way to visualize structure. It wasn’t intended to map over player prominence, balance, or fairness. That kind of literal reading moves away from what the analogy is trying to surface.

That said, I understand why some people might feel uneasy with more open or momentum-based systems. If the group isn’t on the same page—or if people prefer a style where turns are clearly defined and outcomes are tightly scoped—then yeah, something like Daggerheart can feel loose. But that’s where design intent comes in.

Daggerheart is built around collaborative pacing. It expects players to respond to one another, to contribute actively, and to pass narrative control fluidly. That doesn’t make it universally better—it just means it’s tuned for a specific kind of table. Some games support a wide range of play styles. Others commit more fully to one. That’s not a flaw in the system—it’s just a reflection of what kind of experience the designers had in mind.

And not every game is going to click with every group. That’s okay too.

And this brings it back to the core thread topic: when a game has more steps, they only feel heavy if they’re mechanically dead or narratively empty. If each step contributes to how play flows—especially in a system without fixed initiative—then the steps themselves are the structure that keeps players engaged and the game moving. They aren’t obstacles to resolution; they’re the rhythm of the play itself. That kind of design alleviates the need for turn-based structure, like initiative, and becomes a feature of the game system—and a relevant part of the discussion that shouldn’t be overlooked.
 

Thresholds set by armor and level. Some special abilities also adjust it.
If unarmored, it's (level)/(2×Level), no reduction uses.

It's 0—3, actually.
if damage roll ≤ 0, 0 HP
if 1—(low threshold-1): 1 HP
if (low threshold) — (high threshold - 1): 2 HP
if (high threshold) to infinity: 3 HP

Optional rule changes the last line to if (high threshold) — ((2×High Threshold) -1): 3 HP
and adds: (2×(High Threshold))—infinity: 4 HP

Armor Points set by armor and by some special abilities. When used, reduce the HP loss by 1 in exchange for marking an armor use.

It's not going to be terribly common to get 0 damage. Seraphs can use a divinity die to reduce the damage (which I believe is the rolled bit, not HP loss). Some monsters get to make a roll for how much damage is stopped before comparing.

Okay, so not Frag, but not entirely unlike Frag either.

I don't see that as overly complicated. However, I can see how some others might feel that is extra steps for an rpg to accomplish something like "Soak" or Armor as DR.

In a few videos I've watched about Daggerheart, it was expressed that most often the result is 1HP. I think it was Professor DM who had some mild criticism of that.
 

Okay, so not Frag, but not entirely unlike Frag either.

I don't see that as overly complicated. However, I can see how some others might feel that is extra steps for an rpg to accomplish something like "Soak" or Armor as DR.

In a few videos I've watched about Daggerheart, it was expressed that most often the result is 1HP. I think it was Professor DM who had some mild criticism of that.
The problems being solved aren't just Armour as DR; they are twofold:
  • An effective "Armour as DR" that works satisfyingly (so armour has meaningful impact but doesn't utterly render things irrelevant) for foes all the way from kobolds with sharp sticks to dragons biting you
  • The ability to have the fun high damage numbers of D&D without having the anti-dramatic and tedious hit point bloat; having their cake and eating it.
Most basic foes will do 1hp most of the time; most dragons will do 3. It's a balancing and world building thing.
 

Emphasis mine.

5E has only one that isn't Advantage/Disadvantage - Cover. It's a needless and onerous or at least clunky addition that usually gets ignored.
To be clear, you're saying that cover is neeldess/onerous and is usually ignored?

It comes up very frequently in my games- all the time, in fact, if you're a frequent ranged attacker.

I have, however, heard the same thing about height and falling damage, that taking features that reduce/eliminate falling damage etc. are useless... but they also come up very frequently in my games. Stable Footing, an A5E fighter knack that reduces falling damage and getting knocked prone from it, is incredibly popular because of its efficacy (it's probably too effective IMO!).

Apologies if I misread. I can see someone saying that "it's clunky" but I come from a TTRPG+wargaming background so it comes quite naturally to me.
 

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