Dearth of Creativity?

[3catcircus]

Maybe I'm just not noticing all of the RPG stuff out there, but does there seem to be a dearth of creativity as it relates to RPGs in general and electronic aids to them in particular?

Just a few years ago, we had: genuine anticipation at each new WotC and 3rd-party release, Steve's spell sheets, Spellgen, multiple types of character sheets/editors/managers (PDF, excel, Heroforge, PCGen, etc.), all kinds of free adventures (Northern Journeys, etc.), conversions of old school modules, and even the Mappa Harnica toolkit for CC2.

Now, it seems that things are slowing down. CMP no longer has a license to produce datasets for Etools or PCGen, Mappa Harnica seems to be static, I haven't seen any progress on Land of Lich Lords (Northern Journeys), old school module conversions seem to have stopped, HARPs character generation software died (at least twice, IIRC), and WotC's releases are either uninspiring, game-breaking, or rehashes of existing stuff.

 

[Darklone]

Time for 4th edition?

 

[delericho]

old school module conversions seem to have stopped,

Depends where you place "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft", "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits" and "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk".

Besides, I'm not sure there's that much conversion work in many of the old modules. Most of the monsters that were used now exist in 3.5 form, which just leaves some of the traps and magic items to do. Then, you'll probably need to change the level expectations in some cases, but otherwise should be good to go.

and WotC's releases are either uninspiring, game-breaking, or rehashes of existing stuff.

In terms of sourcebooks, you're probably right - so much has been done that the 'big topics' have been covered by now. So, Wizards have to tackle niche areas. Books like "Book of Nine Swords", "Magic of Incarnum" and "Tome of Magic" are obviously not going to be for everyone. But they are at least trying. And I certainly wouldn't be quick to dismiss "Fiendish Codex" I or II.

But for me, the major releases I'm anticipating these days are adventures - I have more than enough rules to last me forever now. "Red Hand of Doom" is a great adventure, "Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde" has a lot to recommend it, and I'm definately looking forward to the aforementioned "Demonweb Pits" and "Ruins of Greyhawk". (Not to mention the monthly fixes of Dragon and Dungeon, which have seldom if ever been better.)

But even if there was not a single product in the pipeline worthy of consideration... so what? As long as you're excited about the game and creating fun campaigns, what does it matter? (Or, alteratively, if you're not excited about the game, would any releases really satisfy?)

 

[3catcircus]

Time for 4th edition?

F that... It was bad enough that 3.x required a major amount of work to use 1st/2nd edition stuff.

 

[3catcircus]

Depends where you place "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft", "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits" and "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk".

I'm talking about the "straight" conversations such as has been done and posted on ENWorld. The Expedition to... books are cool (I've already got Ravenloft), but they are not straight "conversions" so much as "re-interpretations."

Besides, I'm not sure there's that much conversion work in many of the old modules. Most of the monsters that were used now exist in 3.5 form, which just leaves some of the traps and magic items to do. Then, you'll probably need to change the level expectations in some cases, but otherwise should be good to go.

The biggest conversions involve NPCs and traps. Remember when a "Half-Orc 2nd level Fighter, AC 4, hp 24, Longsword +1 1d8+1" was good enough?

In terms of sourcebooks, you're probably right - so much has been done that the 'big topics' have been covered by now. So, Wizards have to tackle niche areas. Books like "Book of Nine Swords", "Magic of Incarnum" and "Tome of Magic" are obviously not going to be for everyone. But they are at least trying. And I certainly wouldn't be quick to dismiss "Fiendish Codex" I or II.

That *is* what I am referring to - Book of Nine Swords, Complete..., Monster Manual IV - they are all a bunch of drek. The only releases I've enjoyed have been the "DM-Centric" books like Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, and the Fiendish Codexes. Almost *everything* that is player-centric is not just abuseable, but *is* abused. The individual pieces are ok, but when you start combining things, it quickly breaks the game.

But for me, the major releases I'm anticipating these days are adventures - I have more than enough rules to last me forever now. "Red Hand of Doom" is a great adventure, "Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde" has a lot to recommend it, and I'm definately looking forward to the aforementioned "Demonweb Pits" and "Ruins of Greyhawk". (Not to mention the monthly fixes of Dragon and Dungeon, which have seldom if ever been better.)

Agreed.

But even if there was not a single product in the pipeline worthy of consideration... so what? As long as you're excited about the game and creating fun campaigns, what does it matter? (Or, alteratively, if you're not excited about the game, would any releases really satisfy?)

Well - really what my observation was about is that it seems that there was a lot of initial fan enthusiasm to create stuff for use with d20 that has seemed to die down.

 

[Nifft]

Well - really what my observation was about is that it seems that there was a lot of initial fan enthusiasm to create stuff for use with d20 that has seemed to die down.

Say what?

Cheers, -- N

 

[I'm A Banana]

Maybe I'm just not noticing all of the RPG stuff out there, but does there seem to be a dearth of creativity as it relates to RPGs in general and electronic aids to them in particular?

In your head.

What, exactly, are you looking for? Because chances are that either there is something out there that meets it already, if not on the horizon. And if there's not, it could be for reasons as broad as "market fluctuations."

 

[Celebrim]

That *is* what I am referring to - Book of Nine Swords, Complete..., Monster Manual IV - they are all a bunch of drek.

The dearth of creativity comes from the fact that much of the territory I would like to see explored is hard to create (alot harder than creating new feats, PrC's, base classes, spells, magic items, monsters, and well all the content currently coming out) and even if done well is probably is too specialized to sell well because its only going to appeal to that narrow set of DM's that sees the need and wants to run a campaign where it is relevant. Most DM's and players don't.

 

[Crothian]

Is this death of creativity or a new slang work I'm too old to know?

For creativity I hjave to say it is there in RPGs. In D&D especially from wizards we are getting creativity of Mechanics. It relaly dpends on what you are looking for RPGs to be creative with.

 

[delericho]

I'm talking about the "straight" conversations such as has been done and posted on ENWorld. The Expedition to... books are cool (I've already got Ravenloft), but they are not straight "conversions" so much as "re-interpretations."

Me too, but others see it differently. This should at least give you some decent releases to consider, though.

The biggest conversions involve NPCs and traps. Remember when a "Half-Orc 2nd level Fighter, AC 4, hp 24, Longsword +1 1d8+1" was good enough?

Yes. But I'm not sure that I would go back to those days... too many of the older mechanics now repulse me.

I think a large part of the reason the fan-made conversions died out is that Wizards changed their rules on conversions a couple of years ago. Back in the day, these were to not be marked with the d20 logo, and not have various other things. There was a huge library of conversions here and elsewhere (I think most things had been done). Then, Wizards basically reversed their policy, and rendered all existing conversions invalid. To avoid problems, ENWorld took down all the existing conversions, and began building again... but most people couldn't be bothered doing all that work again, so the conversion library remains sparce. A shame, but understandable.

That *is* what I am referring to - Book of Nine Swords, Complete..., Monster Manual IV - they are all a bunch of drek.

MMV, but I can see your point. However, it does beg the question: what would you like to see them produce?

Almost *everything* that is player-centric is not just abuseable, but *is* abused. The individual pieces are ok, but when you start combining things, it quickly breaks the game.

That is, largely, my contention as well. Though I don't see such ubiquitous abuse, since my players can't be bothered to do the homework required to be proper munchkins.

Well - really what my observation was about is that it seems that there was a lot of initial fan enthusiasm to create stuff for use with d20 that has seemed to die down.

You'll always get a boost in enthusiasm when something new and exciting hits. Especially the long-awaited 3rd Edition where so many players who loved the game but left due to the poor mechanics came back. Over time, it will inevitably die down somewhat.

That said, there are still periodic bursts of enthusiasm, although nothing will set the heather alight in the same way again. The Dungeon Adventure Paths are always anticipated, and there are occasionally key releases that generate a buzz. "Red Hand of Doom" in particular generated some heat, due to the general quality of that module.

But, again, I have to ask: what would you like produced? (this time, by the fan community)