Death of Simulation?

[Mallus]

...like monster leveling...

What does monster leveling simulate? Pokemon?

Seeing as I view my games as simulations of bad fantasy novels, comic books, and assorted failed television programs, what I've read about 4th edition indicates it'll help me simulate the stuff I've chosen to simulate better the current edition.

 

[F4NBOY]

Maybe the "per encounter" abilities are not really per encounter.
Most Iron Heroes class abilites are balanced per encounter but they are not "per encounter" strictu sensu.
There is no class ability like Super Attack: you can make a super attack 2 times in a battle.
But the way they work make them be per encounter in a pratical way. Most of them are pretty believable.
Changing the Wizards rest time to 1 minute instead of 8 hours makes his spells be effectivelly "per encounter".

 

[Mercule]

As someone who is a "simulationist" - or at least has simulationist leanings - I don't like it at all.

Agreed.

One of the best elements of 3E was the standardized advancement of monsters and PCs. It's one of the more functional pieces of 3E, too. If it's removed, and it seems it will be, I'll considering it a HUGE step backwards. The different stats for monsters is one of the things that drove me away from D&D in the early 1990s and fixing that was one of the things that brought me back for 3E. That, and the standardization of systems and easily identifyable mathematic progressions for things like stat bonuses, saves, and BAB.

Monster design and the "per encounter" crap (a mechanism I despise) are the only things I'm hearing about 4E that have me at all concerned. Unfortunately, both of those are pretty significant issues for me.

 

[Greg K]

Is it just me or are the 4e designed totally ripping out all the semi-simulationist stuff, like monster leveling, many elements of encounter design, and increasing the gamist stuff, like "per encounter"

I think that is awesome.

I was wondering the same thing the other day. Right now, I get the impression that they are going for a more gamist approach and I don't like it.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The Death of Senationalism!

How is that the death of simulation?

Dunno.

 

[Banshee16]

Is it just me or are the 4e designed totally ripping out all the semi-simulationist stuff, like monster leveling, many elements of encounter design, and increasing the gamist stuff, like "per encounter"

I think that is awesome.

I'm not a big fan of that. There's such a thing as being "too designed", and I'm afraid of the game moving in that direction.

I don't *want* my players to see the cave that is the lair of a dragon, outside of which are scattered the bones of high level adventurers or whatever, and think that at lvl 3, they can go in there, because they're not confronted with things too tough for them. I prefer the simulationist approach where it's a living world, and the players need to choose which threats they're going to deal with, and know when they're in over their heads. That way, I can have the dragon be there, and be a looming threat, but be something which they know they can't tackle early in their careers....then, when they're lvl 12, and they come back, they'll be able to tacitly see how much they've advanced.

Banshee

 

[F4NBOY]

the "per encounter" crap (a mechanism I despise)

Why?

 

[Celebrim]

I was going to start this thread, but I figured it would get shut down. Might as well post before it does.

Yes, it does seem to me that the whole 'focus on the adventure' is marketing for, "We believe that gamist concerns should wholly trump simulationist concerns."

 

[mhensley]

D&D has never been about simulation. If Joe Average can't kill the toughest fighter in the world with one shot from a crossbow- it ain't a simulation.

 

[marune]

D&D has never been about simulation. If Joe Average can't kill the toughest fighter in the world with one shot from a crossbow- it ain't a simulation.

Yeah, levels are ennemies of simulation, so D&D is gamist based at it's core. However it was always bloated with simulationist rules. Hopefully, 4E will end it.