Death of the LGS
- Thread starter gamersgambit
- Start date
Dan Bell
First Post
Google is your friend: http://www.gamersgambitonline.com/
pogre
Legend
Several have already hit on the main key: you must be a destination. Gaming stores should have card and miniature leagues going every night. That's the real repeat business in gaming.
You just cannot compete in RPGs these days. I would say your instincts are correct - cut back on RPGs to the bare minimum.
The economy is going to continue to be rough on retailers for at least the next few months. Like I'm telling you something new...
good luck!
You just cannot compete in RPGs these days. I would say your instincts are correct - cut back on RPGs to the bare minimum.
The economy is going to continue to be rough on retailers for at least the next few months. Like I'm telling you something new...
good luck!
You're probably not going to like what I have to say but I feel the need to say it anyway.
As a failed small-business owner myself, I still find myself unable to find sympathy for you. Small business owners often confuse their business as something personal rather than an investment. It's not. It's a business. The size of your business is irrelevant. You went into business and markets are affected by competition. Complaining about competition does nothing to fix the problem. Either adapt or die.
In the case of my store, I failed to adapt to the changing market (movie rentals) and so I lost everything. I don't blame Blockbuster for this and nor do I blame pirating. I blame myself for not being able to adapt and grow the business.
You change for your customer, not them for you.
They are your customers. Expecting them to change for you is not only utterly ridiculous, but it's also just bad business sense. If you truly believe that your customer should support you, then your business is doomed. The customer owes you nothing. They pay for your living. Cater to them, change to meet their demands, don't expect them to keep supporting you out of sympathy.
As a failed small-business owner myself, I still find myself unable to find sympathy for you. Small business owners often confuse their business as something personal rather than an investment. It's not. It's a business. The size of your business is irrelevant. You went into business and markets are affected by competition. Complaining about competition does nothing to fix the problem. Either adapt or die.
In the case of my store, I failed to adapt to the changing market (movie rentals) and so I lost everything. I don't blame Blockbuster for this and nor do I blame pirating. I blame myself for not being able to adapt and grow the business.
No.
You change for your customer, not them for you.
They are your customers. Expecting them to change for you is not only utterly ridiculous, but it's also just bad business sense. If you truly believe that your customer should support you, then your business is doomed. The customer owes you nothing. They pay for your living. Cater to them, change to meet their demands, don't expect them to keep supporting you out of sympathy.
Philotomy Jurament
First Post
The hard, cold, truth is that many gamers simply don't get much value of a brick-and-mortar game store. Books are cheaper online. In addition to the lower "base price," you generally don't pay sales tax, online, and often don't have to pay shipping. You have a broader choice on what to buy. You can get recommendations and find similar products. You can read reviews. You can talk to a HUGE variety of other gamers online. You can find local gamers through forums, online meetups, et cetera. Heck, if you go in for such things, you can even game online. You can find out-of-print or used material easier online, too.
One reason to buy at a FLGS is if you need the product in your hands right now, with no shipping delay. Another is the desire to browse through the physical product before buying (although some game stores discourage that). Those simply aren't enough.
As a side comment, I don't agree that game stores are the cradle of gaming. I think new gamers tend to come from existing gamers introducing new people to the hobby, and you don't need a game store for that. I think if game store disappeared tomorrow, gaming would continue just fine.
I think that, if game stores are going to survive, they need to reinvent themselves in a manner similar to the way retail bookstores like Borders did. A modern Borders is a nice play to go: there are comfortable chairs, a coffee bar, you can read the books and magazines, you can listen to the music, and it's a nice environment. The game store needs to do something similar; it needs to be a place that gamers want to go and hang out. Provide a clean and pleasant place for gamers to play, for example. Sell drinks and snacks. Have supplies like paper, pencils, graph paper, battlemats, markers, et cetera on hand and for sale. Maybe sell computer time for online gaming. Organize games and tournaments. Et cetera. Get people coming to the store to come to the store. Once they're in there, they're more likely to buy.
I don't think gaming stores can compete, as purely "a place to buy your game stuff." The deck is stacked against them, there. It's just economics.
One reason to buy at a FLGS is if you need the product in your hands right now, with no shipping delay. Another is the desire to browse through the physical product before buying (although some game stores discourage that). Those simply aren't enough.
As a side comment, I don't agree that game stores are the cradle of gaming. I think new gamers tend to come from existing gamers introducing new people to the hobby, and you don't need a game store for that. I think if game store disappeared tomorrow, gaming would continue just fine.
I think that, if game stores are going to survive, they need to reinvent themselves in a manner similar to the way retail bookstores like Borders did. A modern Borders is a nice play to go: there are comfortable chairs, a coffee bar, you can read the books and magazines, you can listen to the music, and it's a nice environment. The game store needs to do something similar; it needs to be a place that gamers want to go and hang out. Provide a clean and pleasant place for gamers to play, for example. Sell drinks and snacks. Have supplies like paper, pencils, graph paper, battlemats, markers, et cetera on hand and for sale. Maybe sell computer time for online gaming. Organize games and tournaments. Et cetera. Get people coming to the store to come to the store. Once they're in there, they're more likely to buy.
I don't think gaming stores can compete, as purely "a place to buy your game stuff." The deck is stacked against them, there. It's just economics.
gamersgambit
First Post
Chiriton sez...
Absolutely. We offer wireless internet now for a yearly fee (which has made us money, & which I expect to be able to lower the price & do more volume when DDI is good to go).
I should clarify: my business offers many good services; I focus on them. My customers who play in the store are loyal ones, who appreciate the space I devote to it. I don't believe I am losing customers in any significant numbers to other stores due to my lack of customer service or services provided (I work hard to ensure that and part of that hard work is posting here, getting the suggestions from you folks that I haven't already heard about!)
Also, my business is in no danger of failing. D&D etc. is only a portion of my revenues. My problem is, I *want* to keep supporting D&D, but the loss of business (explained perhaps better in the following paragraphs) makes the business side of me more tempted to rededicate the D&D space to other things that make more money...
While I have loyal customers as mentioned above, RPG sales amongst those players who *don't* play in the store (and thus have little need for my services) are declining. Perhaps 8 different groups of 6 players or more each play in the store; but a significantly larger number of gamers who are in different home-based groups used to come to my store to pick up their books, to support the store & the community. Now those same people come to me to pick up dice, mats, minis, and other things they can't easily obtain online...but they buy their books online. And the loss of their book business isn't made up by the business they do in accessories.
As much as I appreciate the comments about how to improve my customer service--and believe me, I do, and would like to see them keep coming!--the problem that's causing the death of the FLGS isn't the people who would be affected by an improvement in customer service; it's the people who benefitted from the customer service when they started out gaming, then for some reason (usually age/marriage/kids) moved to home gaming and stopped buying their goods at an FLGS in favor of an online or big-box discount solution.
In short, the veteran gamers....like myself.
The story of my gaming store acquisition is perhaps the biggest illustration of what I'm getting at. I grew up going to the store I would eventually purchase. At this store, I met with my long-time GM of 20 years and another player in his game who will feature later in the tale. Fast forward through a life of working in corporations and making good money doing so to 2007. My friend above mentioned had worked as a manager in his (new) FLGS and then went on to buy it and turn it into a large success--but one which had to minimize its RPG space due to flagging sales.
My former FLGS, having gone through two owners, was going out of business in '07. I played there occasionally, often going to my friends' basement to play but also playing at the store from time to time. I knew there was a large community of gamers that would basically dissipate if the store didn't change hands...so I bought it along with my friend above, who was looking to expand.
We fixed the place up a great deal--removed the gamer funk, modernized the place so it looked like a real retail space instead of a 1970s throwback, put in flooring, improved customer service, added lots of add-on services and basically renovated both the place and its image.
That's where I am today. I don't expect everyone to do anything even close to what I did--give up a career doing something a lot more lucrative to do something that I am passionate about loving--but I don't think it's so much to ask to support local FLGSes. Because as a retailer, all of my experiences are with the hundreds of folks in my local area who either remember the store from when they were kids or the people who still go there to play.
If I gave the impression that I was relying on the handouts of people to keep my business alive, I apologize. The business itself is quite successful for a year-old operation; we continue to innovate and expand, and part of that is an increased online presence such as posting here.
No, what I want--as a gamer and a game store owner--is people to support their FLGSes not to keep them afloat because without your business they would go under, but because the FLGS is important to the entire gaming community. Without support they're not necessarily going to go out of business, but rather go out of the business of //selling RPGs//, which turns them into UNfriendly local gaming stores.
(As a side note, I couldn't agree more with posters who say that it is the onus of the FLGS to serve the customer. That's just good business sense. The problem is that they need customers (of RPGs) to serve, or they'll stop supporting RPGs.)
I am, perhaps, naive in appealing to the community. I can only state that there are many out there from those I have spoken with who benefitted greatly from FLGSes, and many people are of similar opinions.
Perhaps I am also unique in being a gaming store that keeps a large variety of out-of-print and non-D&D/White Wolf RPG materials in store, as well. I should hope not, but that may be the case.
Absolutely. We offer wireless internet now for a yearly fee (which has made us money, & which I expect to be able to lower the price & do more volume when DDI is good to go).
I should clarify: my business offers many good services; I focus on them. My customers who play in the store are loyal ones, who appreciate the space I devote to it. I don't believe I am losing customers in any significant numbers to other stores due to my lack of customer service or services provided (I work hard to ensure that and part of that hard work is posting here, getting the suggestions from you folks that I haven't already heard about!)
Also, my business is in no danger of failing. D&D etc. is only a portion of my revenues. My problem is, I *want* to keep supporting D&D, but the loss of business (explained perhaps better in the following paragraphs) makes the business side of me more tempted to rededicate the D&D space to other things that make more money...
While I have loyal customers as mentioned above, RPG sales amongst those players who *don't* play in the store (and thus have little need for my services) are declining. Perhaps 8 different groups of 6 players or more each play in the store; but a significantly larger number of gamers who are in different home-based groups used to come to my store to pick up their books, to support the store & the community. Now those same people come to me to pick up dice, mats, minis, and other things they can't easily obtain online...but they buy their books online. And the loss of their book business isn't made up by the business they do in accessories.
As much as I appreciate the comments about how to improve my customer service--and believe me, I do, and would like to see them keep coming!--the problem that's causing the death of the FLGS isn't the people who would be affected by an improvement in customer service; it's the people who benefitted from the customer service when they started out gaming, then for some reason (usually age/marriage/kids) moved to home gaming and stopped buying their goods at an FLGS in favor of an online or big-box discount solution.
In short, the veteran gamers....like myself.
The story of my gaming store acquisition is perhaps the biggest illustration of what I'm getting at. I grew up going to the store I would eventually purchase. At this store, I met with my long-time GM of 20 years and another player in his game who will feature later in the tale. Fast forward through a life of working in corporations and making good money doing so to 2007. My friend above mentioned had worked as a manager in his (new) FLGS and then went on to buy it and turn it into a large success--but one which had to minimize its RPG space due to flagging sales.
My former FLGS, having gone through two owners, was going out of business in '07. I played there occasionally, often going to my friends' basement to play but also playing at the store from time to time. I knew there was a large community of gamers that would basically dissipate if the store didn't change hands...so I bought it along with my friend above, who was looking to expand.
We fixed the place up a great deal--removed the gamer funk, modernized the place so it looked like a real retail space instead of a 1970s throwback, put in flooring, improved customer service, added lots of add-on services and basically renovated both the place and its image.
That's where I am today. I don't expect everyone to do anything even close to what I did--give up a career doing something a lot more lucrative to do something that I am passionate about loving--but I don't think it's so much to ask to support local FLGSes. Because as a retailer, all of my experiences are with the hundreds of folks in my local area who either remember the store from when they were kids or the people who still go there to play.
If I gave the impression that I was relying on the handouts of people to keep my business alive, I apologize. The business itself is quite successful for a year-old operation; we continue to innovate and expand, and part of that is an increased online presence such as posting here.
No, what I want--as a gamer and a game store owner--is people to support their FLGSes not to keep them afloat because without your business they would go under, but because the FLGS is important to the entire gaming community. Without support they're not necessarily going to go out of business, but rather go out of the business of //selling RPGs//, which turns them into UNfriendly local gaming stores.
(As a side note, I couldn't agree more with posters who say that it is the onus of the FLGS to serve the customer. That's just good business sense. The problem is that they need customers (of RPGs) to serve, or they'll stop supporting RPGs.)
I am, perhaps, naive in appealing to the community. I can only state that there are many out there from those I have spoken with who benefitted greatly from FLGSes, and many people are of similar opinions.
Perhaps I am also unique in being a gaming store that keeps a large variety of out-of-print and non-D&D/White Wolf RPG materials in store, as well. I should hope not, but that may be the case.
Tetsubo
First Post
I don't have a FLGS. I don't even have a LGS. I make special trips three or four times a year to GS in my era though. Mostly to seek out discount and used gaming books. Buying online is just so much cheaper and convenient.
The truly sad part is that I live in the largest city in my state.
The truly sad part is that I live in the largest city in my state.
CoatRackOfDoom
First Post
Gamersgambit: I'm a 39 year old roleplayer who's childhood gaming store was a shop that specialized in model kits. Roleplaying games and miniatures were given about 15% of the floorspace, but there were no tables and no one on the staff appeared to know anything about the games. I suspect the store owner was just savvy about what the neighborhood kids would buy. Anyway, it was good enough for me to find what I needed, but the community aspect was completely missing.
I've never played in a store. So, these days when I go into a LGS and spot an empty table, I don't think about how my group might just find a home there. Perhaps I figure that table is for Magic players or Warhammer players. In other words, I'm not going to ask you "GG, is that table available on Thursday nights for my group?" (maybe I'll do that now that I've brought it up...)
Perhaps your customers who just buy dice and the occasional $5 third-party supplement might be more willing to buy the high-end stuff if they developed that same attachment YOU had to your FLGS. And perhaps they don't feel INVITED to make themselves at home around a table in your store...
So, if you're not doing it already, maybe try extending these casual customers a personal invitation to 'join the family' when you see them.
I think it's something that I would appreciate, anyway.
Cheers,
Ed
I've never played in a store. So, these days when I go into a LGS and spot an empty table, I don't think about how my group might just find a home there. Perhaps I figure that table is for Magic players or Warhammer players. In other words, I'm not going to ask you "GG, is that table available on Thursday nights for my group?" (maybe I'll do that now that I've brought it up...)
Perhaps your customers who just buy dice and the occasional $5 third-party supplement might be more willing to buy the high-end stuff if they developed that same attachment YOU had to your FLGS. And perhaps they don't feel INVITED to make themselves at home around a table in your store...
So, if you're not doing it already, maybe try extending these casual customers a personal invitation to 'join the family' when you see them.
I think it's something that I would appreciate, anyway.
Cheers,
Ed
Philotomy Jurament
First Post
You need some pictures up on your web-site (especially of any gaming space, snack bar, et cetera).
Treebore
First Post
I can understand where the OP, but I don't give my LGS very much business because:
1. He does not carry the products I like to buy. I like to buy C&C, Necromancer, Goodman, and Paizo. He carries all of them, but only products I bought long ago, he doesn't get new stuff in, even when I told him I wanted them.
2. I am on fixed income and have a wife and 3 kids. I am going to save money where I can. IF that means a LGS goes out of business, so be it.
3. The internet, and online gaming, are becoming the new gathering place for gamers. One that has been far more effective for me than my LGS.
1. He does not carry the products I like to buy. I like to buy C&C, Necromancer, Goodman, and Paizo. He carries all of them, but only products I bought long ago, he doesn't get new stuff in, even when I told him I wanted them.
2. I am on fixed income and have a wife and 3 kids. I am going to save money where I can. IF that means a LGS goes out of business, so be it.
3. The internet, and online gaming, are becoming the new gathering place for gamers. One that has been far more effective for me than my LGS.
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