Deathbringer's CR17 - merited?

[Mr.Black]

Many of the high CR creatures in the MM2 are overrated for their CR. The mountain giant has a pathetic will save and no SR. Many of the undead don't have the hp or damage output to warrant their high CRs.

The deathbringer has no SR and no real damage output. The best thing it can do is greater dispelling until it is destroyed. One would imagine that the deathbringer could use greater dispelling to debuff the party before wading in for melee. The creature looks like a melee monster, but with a +16 as its best attack, it won't even scratch most 17th level fighters. Perhaps you could surround it with lesser undead, but that doesn't make it a CR 17.

 

[fnork de sporg]

Demiurge had a thread converting the underpowered creatures from the MM2 that included an improved version of the deathbringer.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=141205&highlight=deathbringer

 

[ruleslawyer]

Hey! That's awesome!

Yeah, the MM2 creatures are either wacky underpowered relative to CR (deathbringer, hellfire wyrm, fiendwurm, mountain giant) or wacky overpowered (abeil queen, elemental weird, immoth). Using a monster effectively isn't really the issue here; using an effective monster is.

 

[Kalendraf]

He should have probably tailed the party until they got stuck into something relatively hairy, then jumped the Cleric.

Evil doesn't mean "mindless".

I was playing the monster per the suggested tactics in the adventure. In addition, by the description in MM2, it specifically states that the Deathbringer does not use subtlety in combat. Also, the creature lacks any stealth skills to facilitate this kind of strategy. Thus, sneaking off after a group and waiting for a better chance to attack does not appear to be this monster's mode of operation.

Demiurge had a thread converting the underpowered creatures from the MM2 that included an improved version of the deathbringer.

Wow - that one is definitely an improvement over the one in MM2. Those are some really nasty powers, which are the kinds of thing you'd expect from a monster with that high of a CR value.

 

[Nail]

....Now, for a _way_ under CR-ed monster, look at the Arrow Demon in MMIII.....

The other WoTC monster books (esp. MMII and FF) are not very well done. The CRs are off, the monster abilities are either awkward or don't make sense, etc.

Did I still buy the silly things? Yes. Yes I did.