Debut: Ardent

[Destil]

I think there is an error with the Psionic Binder. They get the ability to negate saves on the immobilized effect, but there powers grant restraining effects. While restrained does immobilize, does it actually count as the immobilized effect for purposes of the paragon path?

That's a question I've been meaning to ask in Rules for a while. If I have a bonus to save vs. ongoing damage and I take an effect that's something like "Dazed and Ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends both)" does my save bonus apply? My instinct as a DM is to say yes, and by that logic I'd think it works. Think I'll start a thread...

My hope is that the Ardent is the only meh class in PHb3. A stumble now and then is acceptable, but I hope this isn't a pattern. I hope the Battlemind is interesting.

Basically my thoughts on the at the moment. They're sort of all over the place thematically (which is a huge net loss from 3E. Especially in 3.0 psionic classes had a really tight mechanical focus that was great), at least this build. Almost like a list of powers that were too magical for a warlord. Hopefully it's a class that's more interesting class to play than read (Wardens looked pretty meh when I read PHB2, but seeing one in action they're awesome).

 

[Turtlejay]

I am no optimizer, so I looked at this class and liked it almost immediately because of a few small things. I really think the other build will end up as the flashier, more exciting one. It's stats work well with Dragonborn, as Con is kind of a Tertiary for them (with their Surge bonus and breath keying from it), so I'd like to try a Dragonborn Ardent.

As for their Healing mechanic, I kind of like it. I like the Mantle. I have wanted to try the power points out, and this class looks like it makes good use of them (I mean, I *like* the Psion, but it didn't wow me enough...) in the way that a cheap Augment is often worth it situationally.

Jay

 

[Rechan]

Here's a question.

Someoen in another thread complained about the Warlord, made a comment that I agree with: The warlord does too much for other people without letting him have fun. All the effects go to other allies. I would add that the effects aren't Sexy - by sexy I look at the other classes and they get zones and intriguing effects. Such as the Cleric's Avenging Flame or Rune of Peace. The other leaders get to throw down zones or effects that don't hinge on hits.

So my question is, if the Ardent is the psionic warlord... does it do anything better? Does it have the Warlord's weaknesses, or is it at least interesting?

 

[Destil]

This build seems to be really good at granting multiple allies attacks and has fantastic access to close burst 1 weapon powers (many of their augments are the same power as a close burst 1), without throwing out the bonuses warlords tend to on their granted attacks. While the tac-lord generally wants to work with a great-weapon fighter or a barbarian this guy wants everyone in the party to have a decent basic.

There's almost no reason not to take a fullblade or greatspear as your first feat with this guy (they really like their hit riders)... but it looks like he'll be a pretty good area attack melee fighter.

They have some interesting teleport powers, but in practice that's not too different than the warlord's shifting.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Okay, putting aside game mechanics and focusing on fluff here...

How would you describe an ardent? I'm having a little trouble with what their identity is beyond a "psychic warlord." Or is that the best definition?

 

[amysrevenge]

Okay, putting aside game mechanics and focusing on fluff here...

How would you describe an ardent? I'm having a little trouble with what their identity is beyond a "psychic warlord." Or is that the best definition?

Using "The Power of Positive Thinking" to aid your allies, and its reverse to hinder your foes my making them feel bad.

I'm seeing Al Franken's Stuart character from SNL here. "You're good enough, you're smart enough, and, gosh darn it, people like you. Now spend a healing surge and smite that enemy the best way you can!"

 

[Angellis_ater]

The Ardent makes me reconsider going back to 4E design and finishing those 22 levels of Society Mind we have already written...

 

[Turtlejay]

If you read the fluff, it is the Ardent Psychically projecting his emotions onto the battlefield. So, the ardent is using his inner calm to project healing onto you, or his rage at being bloodied to give you a boost. It is more than just using words, that is how a Warlord does it. The Ardent uses his Psionic powers to actually put *power* behind the words. He doesn't have to say 'you're good enough', he thinks it, you feel it, and you *are* it.

That is kind of what draws me to the class, and why I think a Dragonborn would be a cool flavor. The force of personality, and the way they impose their will on others is just. . .attractive.

Jay

 

[Klaus]

Okay, putting aside game mechanics and focusing on fluff here...

How would you describe an ardent? I'm having a little trouble with what their identity is beyond a "psychic warlord." Or is that the best definition?

If you're into DC Comics, it's J'onn J'onnz telepathically wielding the power of the Emotional Spectrum (Red = Rage, Orange = Avarice, Yellow = Fear, Green = Willpower, Blue = Hope, Indigo = Compassion, Violet = Love).

 

[Rechan]

he thinks it, you feel it, and you *are* it.

If you want to go a different route than "He makes you feel it", he invoking emotions in you or using his emotions to fuel his power...

There's lots of cases I've seen in fiction (sci fi typically) where basically the individual uses the Speed of Thought to dictate things. Plugging a human into a vehicle so his driving is via speed of thought. In The Matrix, Neo learned to nto try and use his muscles, but just think of punching, and he would be much faster.

So the Ardent could be that. 'I think of my ally getting a stab in - and boom it happens at the speed of my attack'.

Another avenue might be a telepathic route, in the sense of the Ardent subconsciously guiding everyone like a wolf pack coordinating an attack. He's not using words, he's not even doing it telepathically, but he's subtly guiding his allies so that they are in the right place at the right time to make the syncronized strike.