Deciding what to stick with for long term games

[igniz13]

This question came to as i've had two attempts at making a character I want to try out in Living 4e on these forums, but it's also one that applies to RL games and any other Living World game, hell it probably applies to any RPG where you're going to be stuck with a character but I'm interested in discussing from a D&D 4e perspective.

How the hell do you settle on a char when you know you're going to be with them for a long time?

For me, it's a nightmare.

I have my flavours of the week/month, currently the ensnaring swordmage (shush you nay sayers!) though it's also flitting between that and women who carry bazookas (or fantasy equivolents) but are still assassins.

Next time might be people who hit things with a 2h weapon or Dex using Barbs, not sure.

When it comes to what I want from a character, it's pretty much the moon on a stick.

I don't like relying on others in the party, so I've got to have survivability, hit-rate, damage, healing and nukage (generally I like nukage anyway), but I also like phsyical skills. I'm not keen on sitting in the back ranks and shooting lasers at people, I prefer getting mixed up. I like to be able to fight enemies on my terms not there's.

But that's getting into Mary Sue characters.

The old advice of making a person you like to play doesn't always work as i've still got to contend with me wanting my own securities. It's no good playing a character if aspects of that character are going to nark you.

So i'm asking how other people settle on playing a character when you know you're going to be with them for a long time.

 

[nnms]

Well, step one is an overall attitude change. As long as you see at as being "stuck with a character" you're not going to let yourself enjoy it.

Assuming that gets resolved, I prefer to let things grow organically. I come up with a very loose concept and then see how it develops in play. I don't pre-build or plan what I'll take at future levels.

I like leaders and controllers, so I usually just pick one I haven't tried yet, find a reasonable race to go with it and then just try to have as much fun as possible exploring what makes that combination unique.

As for their personality and background history, I don't preplan that, but define it only in play, based on what seems cool to me in the moment. I tend to try to relate to what's going on in the game. If the adventure is about finding a kidnapped child, I'll tell some character my younger brother was taken when I was a child. That's just an example, but I prefer to add reasons to be involved in a given story rather than to try to protect my character through having no attachments.

 

[Jhaelen]

I'm like that, too. It typically doesn't take me long to get bored with a character.

My solution: Be a DM! That way you get to play whatever strikes your fancy and you even get to play stuff that's not allowed for players

I also try to be a player in at least two campaigns at a time, ideally using two systems with a different focus.

When I'm the DM I usually allow (and encourage) my players to create several pcs to switch if the mood strikes them and as a backup if one of them meets an untimely end. I started doing this in my 2e Dark Sun campaign which suggested creating a 'stable' of about four characters to acommodate the lethal setting. That approach worked very well for me.

In 4e it's even easier to implement since all pcs tend to have the same level and dying doesn't result in xp loss.

 

[JohnnyO]

My suggestion would be to avoid a "gimmick" character. In my opinion, those are the ones that people tend to get sick of quickly. Spend some time working on a more well rounded character with an interesting back story.

When I say a gimmick character, what I mean is one who is truly amazing at one aspect of the game (i.e. my barbarian has all powers that knock enemies prone, and its super effective), but then has terrible ratings for everyone other skill on the board (i.e. terrible will, fort defenses, terrible skills, no interesting back story, etc.

Once you get the basics down with that character, and you pull off your uber-combo a couple of times, it starts to get old, you get bored, and then you read about the next cool uber-combo and you are just dying to try it.

At least in my opinion, I've had more fun playing characters that are more generalists, then ones who are super-effective in one aspect. They just seem more realistic.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a specific suggestion:

Dwarf Inspiring Warlord MC Fighter (18/14/12/8/10/16 or similar, using Essentials Str+Con option) with Fullblade and Scale. Inspiring Warlord gives lots of healing and high damage Enc and Daily powers, and Fullblade gives +3 proficiency and high damage dice. As a leader, your HP won't be huge, but Dwarf improves Con and gives paragon tier access to Dwarven Durability and great Second Wind add-ons. You can always take Toughness, and for that matter there is nothing sinful about using one of your Inspiring Words on yourself. Fighter MC gives you access to various stances like Rain of Steel for additional damage. Take Direct the Strike to allow attacks when you can't get to anyone due to innate Dwarven slowness or status effects that hinder movement.

For skills, take Athletics and Endurance and maybe Heal, and pick a background that gives you access to Acrobatics. An alternative would be MC Barbarian, which would allow you to take Acrobatics as your MC skill and give you access to even more high-damage power swap options.

Shortcomings:

In any given round you should be able to make an impact. You probably won't be great at nova rounds, but with the right choice of MC power swaps and feats, you might be better than you would expect.

Your at-will powers are not high damage, but as this is a character for the long haul, presumably you will get to the point where you have enough encounter and daily powers that you fall back on at-wills only once or twice per encounter.

 

[OnlineDM]

I don't like relying on others in the party, so I've got to have survivability, hit-rate, damage, healing and nukage (generally I like nukage anyway), but I also like phsyical skills.

I think is where you're running into trouble. D&D 4e is a game about teamwork, and it sound like that's not the style of play that you enjoy. If you make a striker, you're going to have to rely on your defender to keep the bad guys from ganging up on you and your leader to heal you and your controller to wipe out the mobs of minions that you don't handle very well.

It sounds like you want a massively overpowered character, which is fine if that's what the people you game with are into. I personally am not a fan of ultra min-maxing, but as long as you're in a party of min-maxers you can still have fun (my thoughts on this topic are here).

My advice would be to spend some time at the Character Optimization boards over on the WotC forums and pick something that looks ridiculous. I know that I've seen a Battlerager Fighter build in one of my games that seemed crazy powerful (full on defender and full on striker, plus enough temporary HP to count as a personal leader).

Note that none of this is how I personally like to play the game, but it sounds like it would make you happy.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Just for fun, I statted up the following Level 12 implementation of my suggestion above. The stats aren't quite right because Character Builder still insists on Con+Wis bonuses for Dwarf, but it would be close. You may not like it, but I figured since I took the time to make it I should share.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 12
Dwarf, Warlord, Kensei
Build: Inspiring Warlord
Warlord: Combat Leader
Commanding Presence: Inspiring Presence
Student of the Sword: Student of Two-Handed Weapons
Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus Fullblade
Background: Occupation - Mariner (Acrobatics class skill)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16.


AC: 28 Fort: 24 Reflex: 19 Will: 24
HP: 92 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 25

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +15, Diplomacy +15, Acrobatics +11, Athletics +15, Heal +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Bluff +10, Dungeoneering +10, History +5, Insight +8, Intimidate +10, Nature +8, Perception +8, Religion +5, Stealth +6, Streetwise +10, Thievery +6

FEATS
Level 1: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 6: Student of the Sword
Level 8: Durable (retrained to Dwarven Durability at Level 11)
Level 10: Toughness
Level 11: Combat Commander
Level 12: Fight On

POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics
Warlord at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Warlord encounter 1: Vengeance is Mine
Warlord daily 1: Leader's Instincts
Warlord utility 2: Encouraging Boost
Warlord encounter 3: Warlord's Strike
Warlord daily 5: Stand the Fallen
Warlord utility 6: Rousing Words
Warlord encounter 7: Fierce Reply
Warlord daily 9: Force of Fellowship
Warlord utility 10: Bolstering Shout

ITEMS
Death's Brink Wyvernscale Armor +3, Periapt of Recovery +3, Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier), Circlet of Second Chances (heroic tier), Belt of Sacrifice (heroic tier), Gloves of Piercing (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Distance Javelin +2, Challenge-Seeking Fullblade +3, Potion of Vigor (heroic tier) (2), Potion of Regeneration (heroic tier) (2), Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (4)

 

[renau1g]

As a founding member of the L4W living world I can tell you it's very hard. I've played my PC now for 3 years and have had so many other ideas for PC's come into my head it can be tough not to abandon him for another concept. I've always been happy with his backstory though and have enjoyed the RP aspect, which is where the PbP-format shines

 

[igniz13]

I think is where you're running into trouble. D&D 4e is a game about teamwork, and it sound like that's not the style of play that you enjoy. If you make a striker, you're going to have to rely on your defender to keep the bad guys from ganging up on you and your leader to heal you and your controller to wipe out the mobs of minions that you don't handle very well.

This is part of the reason i'm most interested in discussing this from a 4e angle. The roles work against me.

I don't see wanting to be a jack of all trades and a thoroughly well rounded warrior as overpowered. I'm not asking to do everything for the party, just be less dependent on other party members. I've actually developed some builds that handle a little bit of everything and they aren't power builds.

But it's still very annoying to get past being in a role and accepting that I will need to depend on others in some fronts. Something that conflicts with me sticking with a character.

Thanks for the suggestion Presti' I don't play Dwarves though I imagine a Goliath would work in it's place.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Thanks for the suggestion Presti' I don't play Dwarves though I imagine a Goliath would work in it's place.

Dragonborn would work well too. You could also do something similar with a Str Cleric but and pump Con instead of Wis or Cha, as the benefits from the secondary Cleric stats are good but not hypercritical.