Decipher's LotR RPG Supported Again!!

[Scribe Ineti]

That depends. What mechanics in d20 would be detrimental for a Middle-Earth type game?

Basic mechanics aren't really an issue, but there are specific things in D&D that I think would have to be massively retooled to make the system better fit Middle-earth.

A few off the top of my head:

* The magic system and most of the spells
* Hit points
* The classes
* The races
* Alignment.

 

[RFisher]

Great! I don't play the LoTR RPG, but it's nice to have some signs of the RPG industry health. It is a nice anecdote to the "doom and gloom" in the RPG industry.

Decipher's LotR RPG has never been something I'd consider a sign of health.

I really like the CODA system, though I'm not entirely happy with its implementation in the LotR RPG. I do think they did a great job on the magic system (despite valid criticisms from some corners). Despite the book's flaws, I think we did manage to capture the Middle-earth feel in our campaign.

The one supplement I was interested in, Fell Beasts and Wondrous Magic, I found very disappointing, though. I'd had high hopes for it, but there wasn't anything in it valuable enough to me to justify the price they were asking.

 

[Ranger REG]

Basic mechanics aren't really an issue, but there are specific things in D&D that I think would have to be massively retooled to make the system better fit Middle-earth.

A few off the top of my head:

* The magic system and most of the spells

I agree with you. It should be subtle, but let's try and stay away from multi-round casting time, like in MERP, at least for the simple low-level/minor spells.

* Hit points

What health system do you prefer? VP/WP? Injury/Damage Saving Throw? T20 Stamina/Lifeblood?

* The classes

Do you wisht to modify existing classes or offer new ones?

* The races

Meh. There are some d20-labeled fantasy games that offers variations of races for character creations. Of course, the Middle-Earth elves stat and traits will have to differ from the standard D&D elves.

* Alignment.

We can either ignore Alignment or offer a different design in its place. Me? I prefer Allegiance from d20 Modern.

All of those mods you can pretty much do and still have the d20 logo (plus the PHB requirement). It's a business question of how you wish to appeal to your target customers.

 

[Ranger REG]

Personally the only LOTR game that really felt like LOTR to me was MERP by Iron Crown Enterprises. It used a lite version of Rolemaster and had a good gritty feel due to the nasty crit charts. I still have a copy and am kicking around the idea of using the system for a Midnight campaign.

By "lite" you mean, there are less cross-referencing attack spreadsheets.

I think we can do that for d20 which only takes one page (instead of two pages across) for each weapon types (slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing). An open-ended 1-20 roll is much less smaller than the wider open-ended 1-100 roll.

 

[ecliptic]

Basic mechanics aren't really an issue, but there are specific things in D&D that I think would have to be massively retooled to make the system better fit Middle-earth.

A few off the top of my head:

* The magic system and most of the spells
* Hit points
* The classes
* The races
* Alignment

Here let me disect Ranger's post for you.

That depends. What mechanics in d20 would be detrimental for a Middle-Earth type game?

What mechanics in d20

D20 is NOT D&D.

 

[VorpalBunny]

Here let me disect Ranger's post for you.



What mechanics in d20

D20 is NOT D&D.

Correct. Hence mine and Ineti's comments about a re-tooled OGL game being better for LotR than straight D&D.

 

[Scribe Ineti]

I agree with you. It should be subtle, but let's try and stay away from multi-round casting time, like in MERP, at least for the simple low-level/minor spells.

Definitely. And the spell lists would need a serious enema.

What health system do you prefer? VP/WP? Injury/Damage Saving Throw? T20 Stamina/Lifeblood?

Not familiar with most of those. I want a wound system that makes the characters less effective the more they're wounded, and I'd like to see a weariness/fatigue system. Sort of similar to the VP/WP system, but with penalties for aggregate hit point loss.

Do you wisht to modify existing classes or offer new ones?

Both. Some of the classes fit the setting, but would need to be revised. Some characters from the books don't fit any of the standard classes and would have to have new classes (i.e., a noble-type, a craftsman-type, etc.).

Meh. There are some d20-labeled fantasy games that offers variations of races for character creations. Of course, the Middle-Earth elves stat and traits will have to differ from the standard D&D elves.

And many of the standard d20 fantasy races would probably have to go, such as the half-elf, half-orc, and gnome.

We can either ignore Alignment or offer a different design in its place. Me? I prefer Allegiance from d20 Modern.

I'd like to see a corruption mechanic of some sort, a Renown or reputation sort of mechanic, and a mechanic that could help to represent hope or loss thereof.

All of those mods you can pretty much do and still have the d20 logo (plus the PHB requirement).

If such a thing were possible, and still be able to evoke the setting, I'd be all over it.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I'd also like to see the game's focus be far more on creating heroic characters and role-playing them, rather than on mathematics, XP collecting, and leveling up. Middle-earth is about far more than killing things and taking their stuff. From the ground up, this new game should have that at its core and have it reflected throughout. A gamer who wanted to simply kill orcses and power up should probably play D&D.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I disagree. CODA may seem like "d20-lite" on the surface, but it really isn't. The systems share a common resolution mechanic and the idea of character classes. That's about it. As you know, CODA is a 2d6 skill-based, level-less (advancements are NOT levels), hit point-less system. VERY different from d20. I don't think a d20 version of Middle-Earth could capture the feeling of the setting as well as CODA. An OGL version might, but it would have to be a totally re-tooled system, similiar to what Mongoose did with the CONAN RPG.

I ran a campaign of the game with a bunch of d20/D&D veteran gamers, who all commented on how similar the game was to d20. The advancement system seemed enough like a type of leveling up to us, and the damage system, while different, was about as different as what you might find in a game like Mutants & Masterminds (OGL d20 variant), or one of the variant damage systems presented in (the OGC) Unearthed Arcana. So an OGL version, at least, would be easily possible, and I simply don't think a d20 version that captures the feel of the setting is at all impossible. Heck, a lot of Midnight, a d20 product, would work very well for the setting, considering it basically answers the question "what would have happened in Middle-earth if Frodo had failed?"

 

[Ranger REG]

Correct. Hence mine and Ineti's comments about a re-tooled OGL game being better for LotR than straight D&D.

But why OGL? Is it better to make it a standalone rulebook and market the LOTR brand? How many LOTR fans are role-playing gamers?

 

[Ranger REG]

Not familiar with most of those. I want a wound system that makes the characters less effective the more they're wounded, and I'd like to see a weariness/fatigue system. Sort of similar to the VP/WP system, but with penalties for aggregate hit point loss.

Then we got to go with Damage Saving Throw. Found in both Unearthed Arcana and in Mutants & Masterminds. It's the only wound-level system I know for d20/SRD.

Both. Some of the classes fit the setting, but would need to be revised. Some characters from the books don't fit any of the standard classes and would have to have new classes (i.e., a noble-type, a craftsman-type, etc.).

That can easily be done. There are so many noble classes as well as craftsman classes (they should be an adventuring types for PC class option).

And many of the standard d20 fantasy races would probably have to go, such as the half-elf, half-orc, and gnome.

We can for the sake of the setting, determine the flora and fauna. We can modify to fit the existing Middle-Earth races, even eliminate them if they're not indigenous to that world. After all, Dragonlance don't have orcs.

I'd like to see a corruption mechanic of some sort, a Renown or reputation sort of mechanic, and a mechanic that could help to represent hope or loss thereof.

Reputation, I can do that. Tracking one's alignment is doable but is it necessary for Middle-Earth?

EDIT: I forgot to add that I'd also like to see the game's focus be far more on creating heroic characters and role-playing them, rather than on mathematics, XP collecting, and leveling up. Middle-earth is about far more than killing things and taking their stuff. From the ground up, this new game should have that at its core and have it reflected throughout. A gamer who wanted to simply kill orcses and power up should probably play D&D.

What? And let Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli hunt the orcs for themselves?

Personally, I don't like being told what kind of game I should run for Middle-Earth. A product can suggest and recommend me to run one type of game (epic storytelling), but to say that in print (paraphrasing "if you just like hack-n-slash, don't buy this product") would be unappealing.