Deconstructing class abilities for purchase with XP

[Particle_Man]

Can someone gain prestige class abilities like the assassin's death attack at a low character level?

 

[Vaxalon]

And with regard to BESM and M&M, neither of them borrow from EN Pub's Four Color to Fantasy which I believe predates both of them..

BESM predates D20.

 

[Desdichado]

BESM predates D20.

Not BESM d20, which is the subject of the conversation.

 

[Desdichado]

Just bought this, downloading it now. Sounds like something I'll really be interested in. If I can recreate the first edition ranger or a reasonable facsimile without losing about 10 levels worth of exp, I'll be a happy customer.

Yeah, it's called modding the class. If you don't like monkeying around with the rules, in this case, it is specifically granted in the rules (in the DMG) that DMs can customize their classes, and a sample is even given (the witch.)

I wouldn't think that this product is written with an eye towards customizing classes; it's more about class-less and level-less d20.

And if it's not, I'm sure The Sigil will promptly correct me.

This is something that I actually have a very great interest in. After I get back from vacation, assess how well we adhered to our vacation budget, and ensure that I can actually afford to buy RPG material again for the next few months, I'll be picking this one up.

 

[The Sigil]

Can someone gain prestige class abilities like the assassin's death attack at a low character level?

Let's see... based on the material as written, it would require 750 XP to gain the Death Attack ability (150 XP to fill the prerequisite of Sneak Attack for 1d6 plus 600 XP to gain access to the Death Attack ability) with a DC of 11+Int Modifier. Upping the DC to 12+Int Modifier would require another 200 XP; upping it to 13+Int Modifier would require an additional 300 XP (beyond the 200 already spent) and so on. So the answer in this case is, "yes."

Whether this is a good or bad thing is certainly up for debate... which, again, is why I favor "GM adjudication." I know I myself would probably require that a character receive "special training" in order to gain any ability normally restricted to a prestige class - IOW, you can pick up the "Core Class Abilities" as you like, but gaining access to "prestige abilities" requires you to find and belong to the appropriate "prestige organization."

--The Sigil

 

[The Sigil]

I wouldn't think that this product is written with an eye towards customizing classes; it's more about class-less and level-less d20.

It is written as class-less and level-less d20, but as someone earlier in the thread mentioned, one of the "side effects" is that it can help you "build" a prestige (or core) class if you want to. I even included as an appendix the "Builds" for all 11 Core Classes, with itemized costs for all abilities gained at each level; it lets you see how the "power curves" of the core classes track with the system. Also the appendix is useful for giving you a feel on how to build your own classes, should you want to go that route. It wasn't the goal to help build classes, but it is a side-effect.

--The Sigil

 

[Pbartender]

Interesting... I really like the whole idea, and many of my players are fond of this sort of character-building. I may have to purchase and download a copy.

The method I used to create Buy the Numbers was actually to sit down with an enormous Excel Spreadsheet and set up all of the equations with everything determined except some constants I fed into the equations. When I got results where most of the time, building a "Core Class Character" of level X (and I tested levels 1-20) with these rules fell into the "normal" XP range, I stopped plugging numbers. It was about a 3-month game of trying to balance about a dozen equations, some of which I had to "guess at" as I went along.

So, based on that... If I wanted to, I could use the standard core classes and build a PC or NPC that is roughly the same power as a character built with your point-based system. It'd be an great short-cut for those NPCs who aren't important enough to warrant a full-fledged customization. The core classes would act more like 'templates' or 'standard career paths'.

I may have to make a shopping trip over at RPGNow... I've been meaning to pick up TOGC's spell and monster cards for the longest time.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Yeah, it's called modding the class. If you don't like monkeying around with the rules, in this case, it is specifically granted in the rules (in the DMG) that DMs can customize their classes, and a sample is even given (the witch.)
.

Yeah, I can change 'em if I'm dming, but not if I'm a player. If I can get the dm to okay a book, though then I have firm(er) ground to stand on when trying new stuff. Firmer than if I just make up my own class anyway.

 

[Desdichado]

Really? To me, as a DM (and in most cases with DM's I've played under) suggesting some swaps of class abilities is easier than suggesting some entirely new class out of some d20 book that I happen to own (and which he likely does not.)

 

[Flyspeck23]

Just bought this, downloading it now. Sounds like something I'll really be interested in. If I can recreate the first edition ranger or a reasonable facsimile without losing about 10 levels worth of exp, I'll be a happy customer.

Speaking of character customization, here's the link:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1828

Fair's fair, eh?