Dedicated Mechanics

[Reynard]

Over in this thread the following came up while talking about heist mechanics.

And that could be said for almost any game. But D&D doesn't model heist in any way, mechanically speaking. It simply becomes a matter of playstyle.

In which case, I prefer a game that gives me the instruments to play on the strengths of the heist.

I wanted to move it to its own thread and out of D&D-land so we could discuss it more broadly.

How do you feel about specific mechanics to force or encourage genre trope or elements? In the heist example, games that focus on them include things like "flashbacks" that make it easier to create the illusion of the kind of planning heist books and movies highlight. Other elements could be tightly focused roles (the boss, the heavy, the safecracker, whatever) as well as genre-appropriate methods for dealing with combat, injury, death or whatever. Games with narrative bents often use these kinds of mechanical tools, such as PbtA, FitD and Fate games (among others). But sometimes more traditional RPGs fold these kinds of mechanics into a broader general core mechanic. An example of this might be Journeys from The One Ring.

Do you think focused mechanics are better in games built for that one thing, or do you like focused mechanics within more broadly applicable game systems? Do you not like these kinds of specific mechanics and think you should be able to use the core mechanic to accomplish these things?

For my part, while I enjoy some games designed with a laser focus, I generally prefer medium crunch highly applicable rules systems. I can do a heist in D&D or Savage Worlds as well as I can in Scum and Villainy. It just means conducting play in a way that feels like the heist genre and using the tools you have to make it happen. That said, I will adapt things like SWADE's "dramatic tasks" for whatever the thing is I am trying to emulate and tweak the rules if need be.

Thoughts?

 

[phuong]

What kind of game are you working on?

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm reviewing a game right now that, while ostensibly a d20-based OSR game with all that entails, includes a bunch of highly specific mechanics that cater to the game's in-built premise and setting*, providing a much better play experience than a generic d20-based OSR game ever could. So I guess I'm in the "specific mechanics" for a specific play experience camp.

*Specifically, in this game, player characters are Branded, former Inquisitors, now called heretics, who have been marked with the Brand of Sacrifice, a mark that draws evil to them, but also allows them to divine the location of evil to be fought. Additionally, when near the restless dead, spirits may possess the bodies of the Branded, using them for their own ends.

 

[Ghal Maraz]

I appreciate the thread-branching.
Myself, I usually prefer rules systems that model the narrative and the fiction, but it doesn't have to be a laser-focus on some specific aspect. I mean, I can certainly do some FitD, but I also appreciate a broader focus: The One Rings is actually a fitting example, as its focus isn't journey, but Tolkien-feeling. The feeling of playing Tolkien comes from some particular aspects of the rules, like the Journey mechanics.
If I look at a game like Smallville, I can see many different layers working there, like the "troupe-character-creation", that blend together in the (TV serialised) drama making the engine works.
But I don't dislike having some trope mechanic making its way in more generalised systems, being them really universal ones like Savage Worlds, or more focused ones, like D&D (which is also a self-fulfilling prophecy, as D&D created its own genre, in time). What I don't appreciate is having to prep more to convey particular tropes in games that aren't focused on those and require some solid modifications to work.
And, yes, those modifications can sometimes be just pure roleplaying, but it's still some solid work. (I should note that heist is one of those tropes that, IMHO, require ad-hoc mechanics to work smoothly.)

 

[Reynard]

What kind of game are you working on?

I'm not sure I understand the question. (Unless it wasn't for me because maybe I can't see someone you quoted? That happens sometimes with ignore lists.)

 

[Reynard]

I think my first "sub system" was the combined War Machine and Domain Management from the Companion Rules. For some reason my gut says that's "different" than a heist or journey system, but it really isn't, is it? And I have long struggled with trying to develop a "social combat" system to layer on top of D&D.

 

[Committed Hero]

This dovetails nicely with the thread about rules not being important. If your game is about PCs doing X, the rules you include should reinforce the ability of PCs to do X. It's not a fair knock on D&D to say it doesn't run heists, since we don't typically turn to D&D to scratch that itch. Nor is it fair to say it can't run heists at all, since group buy-in is just as important.

 

[aco175]

D&D might not have great rules for a heist or chase but when they put out a book about that, they can include a mechanic to make it work. Leaving it up to the DM likely will not work. You cannot just make 20 Deception rolls and think it will work. Maybe there are points of success along the way or various NPCs that need to be brought on board and they total to a success. This sounds more like a board game than a RPG at some point though.

 

[MGibster]

How do you feel about specific mechanics to force or encourage genre trope or elements? In the heist example, games that focus on them include things like "flashbacks" that make it easier to create the illusion of the kind of planning heist books and movies highlight. Other elements could be tightly focused roles (the boss, the heavy, the safecracker, whatever) as well as genre-appropriate methods for dealing with combat, injury, death or whatever.

When the authors have a clear vision of what they want the game to be all about, I think specific mechanics to encourage a particular style of play are fantastic. Blade Runner from Free League is not a generic cyberpunk game, it's designed to emulate the neo-noir style of the 1982 movie as well as the 2017 sequel. Vampire the Masqurade (5th edition) is also designed with a particular game style in mind and won't work for every single vampire story.

 

[phuong]

I'm not sure I understand the question. (Unless it wasn't for me because maybe I can't see someone you quoted? That happens sometimes with ignore lists.)

I assumed you are a game designer working on something given the design questions you ask each week.