Deeper Darkness questions

[DrSpunj]

Here is the info on this spell from the SRD:

Deeper Darkness

Evocation [Darkness]
Level: Clr 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Object touched
Duration: 1 day/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell causes the object touched to shed absolute darkness in a 60-foot radius. Even creatures who can normally see in the dark cannot see through this magical darkness. If the spell is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effects are blocked until the covering is removed.

Daylight brought into an area of deeper darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.

Deeper darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower level, including daylight and light.

1) Does Deeper Darkness cast for effect (meaning, you are trying to create an area of magical darkness, not using it for countering or dispelling) automatically dispel a Continual Flame?

2) Does Deeper Darkness cast for effect have any effect of the glow of magical weapons?

My confusion arises from several things.

Casting Deeper Darkness for effect is fine, but I don't think it should affect magical items (like magical weapons and Everburning Torches, for example) unless the spell is used specifically against these items for dispelling purposes, similar to a Targeted Dispel from Dispel Magic.

If the Deeper Darkness is cast for effect I believe this is more similar to an Area Dispel from Dispel Magic and therefore any Light orison/cantrip spells would be dispelled easily, and mundane light sources would be suppressed for the duration of Deeper Darkness, but I don't believe magical item effects should be affected at all.

I sent a message to the Sage asking similar questions (that I brought up in an old thread from here in late January) but never received any response from him.

Anyone with opinions?

Thanks.

 

[kreynolds]

1) Yes. If deeper darkness is cast in an area with a functioning continual flame, it will automatically suppress continual flame for the duration of deeper darkness.

2) Deeper Darkness suppresses all light sources except for those that are created from higher level light spells. So, it will suppress the glow of a magic sword, unless the glow is a special ability of the sword specifically granted by a light spell. The standard magical glowing of weapons are suppressed by deeper darkness.

 

[Demogorge]

You shouldn't treat this spell so much like a dispel. When that kind of wording is used in a spell description, they are talking specifically about this rule:

Spells with Opposite Effects: Spells that have opposite effects apply normally, with all bonuses, penalties, or changes accruing in the order that they apply. Some spells negate or counter each other completely. This is a special effect that is noted in a spell's description.

Deeper Darkness can be used to counter or dispel another "Light" spell. So if a sword has Daylight cast on it, an enemy spellcaster can cast Deeper Darkness on that sword to dispel it (leaving no darkness effect either). Deeper Darkness cast in the area will only "stack" with the light, leaving normal conditions in that area.

Continual Flame is an Illusion "Figment" and not a "Light" spell so it is not subject to being dispelled by a Deeper Darkness targeted on the object. Also it only produces light equivalent to a mundane torch so it probably would be completely suppressed and not "stack" like Daylight does.

 

[Tiberius]

Continual Flame is an Illusion "Figment"...

Actually, IIRC it has been errataed to be an Evocation, as it creates a real effect (the light), which figments are unable to do.

-Tiberius

 

[kreynolds]

Continual Flame is an Illusion "Figment" and not a "Light" spell so it is not subject to being dispelled by a Deeper Darkness targeted on the object. Also it only produces light equivalent to a mundane torch so it probably would be completely suppressed and not "stack" like Daylight does.

Don't worry. I messed up on that one a while back too. Doh!

 

[Demogorge]

/me waits patiently for someone to update the SRD with errata...

...So as I was saying, Deeper Darkness can permanently dispel Continual Flame if it is cast on the same object...

Note that this isn't like a dispel, it's an automatic counter. No check is made.

 

[kreynolds]

/me waits patiently for someone to update the SRD with errata...

...So as I was saying, Deeper Darkness can permanently dispel Continual Flame if it is cast on the same object...

Note that this isn't like a dispel, it's an automatic counter. No check is made.

Congratulations. You said what I ALREADY said. So take off those glasses and sit back down, ya' young whippersnapper!

 

[Demogorge]

Ha! You're right! (again)

Ok at this point I'm just using this thread to increase my post count.

 

[kreynolds]

LOL

 

[DrSpunj]

Okay...

While I'm more than happy to provide a thread for everyone to increase their post-count, I do have a couple more questions .

I agree with everything that has (once corrected) been posted and happily it all agrees with the conclusions a fellow player and I had about things so far.

The situation we were trying to figure out was this:

My 7th level Cleric had a Light orison going and always has a Continual Flame on his helmet (think spelunker, I'm a cleric of Pelor in the underdark, go figure). We met up with some Yuan-ti, one of which quickly cast Deeper Darkness. On the following round I cast Daylight (Cleric version, of course, so 3rd level).

As my friend and I understand things, the Deeper Darkness would have suppressed (but not dispelled) both the Light orison and the Continual Flame on my helmet. Once I had cast Daylight (for effect, not for counter) the areas of overlap between Deeper Darkness and Daylight returned to their "prevailing light conditions" which would mean both the Light orison and my Continual Flame helmet provide light again, and will continue to do so along as they remain in the overlap of the Daylight spell where they are "protected".

More questions:
1) Do you agree with the above assessment?

2) Since Light, Darkness, Deeper Darkness and Daylight all have a range of touch, could you cast them to counter an opposite at anything beyond Touch range?

3) Does the level of Daylight matter? It can be cast as a 2nd level spell by Bards and Sor/Wiz but is a 3rd level spell for Clerics. Would a 2nd level Daylight cast by a Bard or Sor/Wiz fare the same, better or worse against a Deeper Darkness spell (which is always 3rd level)?

4) With the above scenario, would the Yuan-ti casting a second Deeper Darkness have any effect on my cleric's Daylight? I would think no since "similar effects don't stack" but my DM seemed to think that the first Deeper Darkness would negate the effect of my Daylight, and the second would therefore recover the full area with magical darkness.

I'm sure I have a couple left about this topic, but answers to these questions may answer them as well. Thanks for the response so far.

DrSpunj