Deeper Darkness questions

[kreynolds]

1) yes

2) no. you must touch to counter.

3) Yes. The level of daylight does matter. When determining the level of a spell for dispelling or cancelation purposes, always use the highest level, IIRC. Thus, daylight is always considered a 3rd level spell, which is why it can negate Deeper Darkness.

4) The first casting of Deeper Darkness would in fact negate your Daylight spell, thus the normal lighting conditions within the overlap, and your helm would still function within this over lap. A second casting of Deeper Darkness would supress your helm for the duration of the second Deeper Darkness spell, though he would have to physically touch your helm to do this.

Two castings of Deeper Darkness will not stack, they negate (NOT CANCEL) each other, thus there will always be normal lighting conditions within the gap. If he doesn't risk an AoO for attacking your helm (which is a worn item and entitles you to an AoO), then your helm will light the overlap, but nothing else.

 

[DrSpunj]

Okay...

I'm with you all the way until this last point:

4) The first casting of Deeper Darkness would in fact negate your Daylight spell, thus the normal lighting conditions within the overlap, and your helm would still function within this over lap. A second casting of Deeper Darkness would supress your helm for the duration of the second Deeper Darkness spell, though he would have to physically touch your helm to do this.

Two castings of Deeper Darkness will not stack, they negate (NOT CANCEL) each other, thus there will always be normal lighting conditions within the gap. If he doesn't risk an AoO for attacking your helm (which is a worn item and entitles you to an AoO), then your helm will light the overlap, but nothing else.

I apologize, and may not have been clear in my description above, but my cleric and the Yuan-ti are standing about 30' apart, and we never moved. In essence because he is the center of Deeper Darkness, and I am the center of Daylight, the area of overlap between is a football shaped thing that brings to my mind a Venn (sp?) diagram.

I agree that my helmet would work again in the area of overlap. With my last question I was trying to discern whether a second casting of Deeper Darkness from 30' away (for effect, not for counter or dispel which must be done at Touch range) would have any additional effects?

Because "similar" effects don't stack, I wouldn't think 2 castings of Deeper Darkness (for effect) would do anything more than a single casting, or 100 castings, and that in all of those situations a single casting of Daylight (again for effect, not countering or dispelling) would negate both powers in the area of overlap.

I agree wholeheartedly that if I was standing next to the Yuan-ti and he cast Deeper Darkness to counter/dispel my Daylight, or my Continual Flame helmet that I would get an AoO (or at least some kind of save) and that if he were successful either the Daylight of my Continual Flame would be removed (whichever he was targetting).

I apologize if I'm not being clear or just being dense.

 

[Mahali]

Two castings of Deeper Darkness will not stack, they negate (NOT CANCEL) each other, thus there will always be normal lighting conditions within the gap. If he doesn't risk an AoO for attacking your helm (which is a worn item and entitles you to an AoO), then your helm will light the overlap, but nothing else.

A second casting of Deeper Darkness won't do anything but cause an overlap (if centered in a different location). A second casting can't dispell the original, that must be done at the time of casting. Zfter Deeper Darkness is cast it requires Dispell Magic or Daylight to counter the spell.

Touching with an active spell is an armed attach and won't provoke an AoO. I would allow a touch attack to effect the helm. It's an attended object and gets a saving throw just as if you cast Deeper Darkness on the person wearing the helm. They'll be trying to avoid the touch not take an AoO.

 

[kreynolds]

A second casting of Deeper Darkness won't do anything but cause an overlap (if centered in a different location). A second casting can't dispell the original, that must be done at the time of casting. Zfter Deeper Darkness is cast it requires Dispell Magic or Daylight to counter the spell.

No kidding? I said that already.

Touching with an active spell is an armed attach and won't provoke an AoO.

It will if you touch a worn object. Period. If you wanna fudge the rules, that's fine. But then it's a house rule and you can take it to the appropriate section.

I would allow a touch attack to effect the helm.

That's fine. But you MUST touch the helm. That provokes an AoO.

It's an attended object and gets a saving throw just as if you cast Deeper Darkness on the person wearing the helm.

You're right. The helm gets a saving throw. It uses your modifiers.

They'll be trying to avoid the touch not take an AoO.

I don't care what they are trying to avoid. If you attack or even touch a worn item, they get an AoO on you. Anything else is a house rule. Don't mean to sound rude. I'm just typing fast.

 

[DrSpunj]

Ummm.

kreynolds, I've really appreciated your input. Do you think you could look at my reply (above Mahali's) and give me your opinion on it? As I said in that reply, you lost me a bit at the end.

Thanks.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Okay...

With my last question I was trying to discern whether a second casting of Deeper Darkness from 30' away (for effect, not for counter or dispel which must be done at Touch range) would have any additional effects?

A second casting wouldn't do a thing unless he directly cast it upon (touched) your helm.

 

[DrSpunj]

While I admit I could just be happy to hear what I wanted to hear, I'm glad to hear you concur. Thanks a lot!

DrSpunj

 

[Mahali]

So you can touch the helm at AC 10+dex bonus+deflection bonus and suffer an AoO and a will save or just touch the person. No AoO and they can't take the helm off and toss it away to get out of the Darkness effect.

 

[kreynolds]

...just touch the person. No AoO and they can't take the helm off and toss it away to get out of the Darkness effect.

Fine. If you do that, the Deeper Darkness spell will be cast on the person and not the helm. But guess what? You had to move in close to them to deliver the touch. Know what that means? I'll break it down.

The first darkness spell is cast on a point in space by Character1. Character2 casts daylight on his belt (why not?) and moves into the area of Deeper Darkness cast by Character1. The daylight and deeper darkness negate each other out, but Character2's helm is lighting the negated area because deeper darkness is still going against his daylight, not the helm. Now, Character1 moves right up into the face of Character2 to deliver a touch attack on Character2's body to further negate the continual flame effect. Character1 suffers an AoO for casting within a threatened area, though he might successfully cast defensively and not suffer an AoO. Assuming Character1 is successful in delivering the 2nd deeper darkness spell onto Character2's body, it now negates the helm. But guess what? All of the spells, daylight, continual flame, deeper darkness, and deeper darkness are negating each other until they expire, and continual flame won't expire. What do you have? Normal lighting conditions! What's the point of all of that?

 

[Mahali]

What do you have? Normal lighting conditions! What's the point of all of that?

The normal lighting condition is darkness (lack of light) which the bad guys can see in and he can't. Hence the whole point of the original question being asked.