Defending Weapons as a bonus to Touch AC?

[DreadArchon]

I was statting up a character to fight ghosts, and I hit something I don't understand: Do Defending weapons count as AC against Touch attacks? Flat-foot? Incorporeal Touch Attacks? Based on the spell prerequisites, I would rule "Ghosts and flat-foot definitely, Touch maybe" as a DM, but I'm wondering if there's an official line on this.

Also, is there an official line as to whether you have to be attacking with a weapon to get defending with it, or can you have two +2 Defending Kukris held by two +2 Defending gauntlets worn next to your +2 Defending Spiked Buckler and +2 Defending Armor Spikes, giving you +12 AC? I'd allow it, just because it's so dang expensive, but again I'm curious as to whether there's an official line.

(And yes, you'd do this while fighting defensively with Expertise and 5 ranks in Tumble. )

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was statting up a character to fight ghosts, and I hit something I don't understand: Do Defending weapons count as AC against Touch attacks? Flat-foot? Incorporeal Touch Attacks? Based on the spell prerequisites, I would rule "Ghosts and flat-foot definitely, Touch maybe" as a DM, but I'm wondering if there's an official line on this.

It's an unnamed bonus. Touch attacks ignore armor, natural armor, and shield bonuses.

When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn’t include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.

Also, is there an official line as to whether you have to be attacking with a weapon to get defending with it, or can you have two +2 Defending Kukris held by two +2 Defending gauntlets worn next to your +2 Defending Spiked Buckler and +2 Defending Armor Spikes, giving you +12 AC? I'd allow it, just because it's so dang expensive, but again I'm curious as to whether there's an official line.

You need to be 'the wielder'.

Also note that shield spikes cannot be added to a buckler, and a buckler is not a weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[DreadArchon]

Also note that shield spikes cannot be added to a buckler, and a buckler is not a weapon.

Oh, right. (There's no feat to make it possible to Bash with a Buckler? Pity. Of course, that makes this even more ineffective, but still...)

Thanks for the quick answers.

 

[Darklone]

I wouldn't consider someone wielding his two kukris as "wielding" the gauntlets as well.

 

[javcs]

What if it's a monk/kensai who put defending on his unarmed strike too?

 

[Darklone]

What if it's a monk/kensai who put defending on his unarmed strike too?

Plain said: I'll apply as many defending weapons as he's using (yeah hyp, I know using =|= wielding). So a monk/kensai with unarmed strike and two defending weapons would get that benefit from me if he's attacking with flurry and TWF.

 

[mvincent]

can you have two +2 Defending Kukris held by two +2 Defending gauntlets worn next to your +2 Defending Spiked Buckler and +2 Defending Armor Spikes, giving you +12 AC?

Obligatory notes regarding Multiple Defending Weapons:
Defending has the following wording:
"a bonus that stacks with all others."
... this is sometimes interpreted as indicating that it stacks with itself, but this appears unwarranted.

Take for example the wording for unnamed bonuses:
"A bonus that isn’t named stacks with any bonus."
... this is similar to (or even more permissive than) the wording for defending weapons, yet we do not interpret that to mean they can stack with themselves. In fact, we know that unnamed bonuses from the same source* don't stack with themselves. Note that "same source" in D&D does not refer to the "same item" (or same caster), but rather the "same effect” (or “same spell”).

It is most reasonable to view the bonus from defending as an unnamed bonus (as this is what it actually is). This is also the most balanced way to handle potential stacking problems.

 

[DreadArchon]

Obligatory notes regarding Multiple Defending Weapons:
Defending has the following wording:
"a bonus that stacks with all others."

Oooh, yeah, two Dragon Shamans don't both heal you at once, after all, nor do two applications of Haste stack. I can certainly see "Defending" being the same source as "Defending."

Still lets you put it on armor spikes, though.

 

[mvincent]

Still lets you put it on armor spikes, though.

One more bit of information. The 3.0 FAQ said:
"Using a weapon of defending works just like the Expertise
feat. (You have to use an attack or full attack action.) You can’t
use the weapon like a shield; if you hold the weapon in your off
hand and claim an Armor Class bonus for it, you take all the
penalties for fighting with two weapons, even if you don’t
actually attack with the weapon."

This is an old (rather odd) ruling that indicated something about TWF'ing that conflicts with something the same author later wrote in the RotG. Parts of this answer also seem inconsistent with RAW. Still, it seems to indicate an intent that casual use of an off-hand defending weapon is discouraged.