Defense Bonus Based on Base Attack Bonus?

[Aus_Snow]

whoa! sorry, didnt mean to offend you or something, but thats just my humble opinion

Nah, not in the slightest. Probably just my not so humble opinion, as usual.

In fact, I was responding more to ElectricDragon's post than yours, so that was my mistake. Please just ignore it entirely if you prefer - it won't faze me.

Defense Bonus is not written into the basic ruleset, at all. That's what I'm trying to get across here. And Hit Points? Well... suffice to say, the closer you look at them (in the RAW) the greater the number and severity of cracks that show.

edit --- and I'd forgotten about my other post prior to this one on this thread. :\ I think that qualifies for a 'whoops' or something like it. IOW, wow has that argument been thrashed out (and not just in this thread, either). And I'd simply forgotten. Harumph. Remind me not to get into one of these again! Otherwise I'll probably just go over the same ground, and others will go over theirs. *yawn*s all round, I suspect.

 

[boredgremlin]

Systems with Armor as DR are good sometimes. Its easier to get behind the idea for a lot of players and armor absorbing damage means that it still stays usefull at higher levels when ordinarily enemies BAB's outstrip AC pretty badly in the normal system.

What i do is pretty similar to the grim and gritties system, lol or should i say systems because i pieced together bits from a few different versions? Anyway its like this. Defense goes up like a saving throw but with 3 different advancement rates that top out at either 13,10 or 7 ( i actualy changed all the saves to work this way). Armor does its normal AC as absorption, shields and deflection bonuses add to Defense, natural armor bonuses add to absorption and instead of critical hits you do bonus damage equal to the amount you beat the opponents defense roll by. Rolling a 20 means you roll again+10 and rolling a 1 means you roll again -10.

As optional components to the system i give players more HP then a normal grim and gritties game but still roughly half of what they get in a normal game. Also i give armors absortion against most magical attacks too. And spells damage is cut down some to stop casters from being unstoppable in the low HP enviroment. But then this game is supposed to be a grittier low magic campaign.

I like it and the players like it. Monsters are allways kind of dangerous because they might wind up rolling way better and even a lowly goblin could tag you pretty good. But then again the players can do the same thing and it simulates an actual duel much better. I find most players enjoy having a more active say in whether they get hit or not.

 

[Aeric]

As I understand it, Hit Points take into consideration how good someone is at avoiding injury. Fighters and barbarians have more HP because they are more skilled at turning a deadly blow into a glancing one, even unarmored.

In a game where active defense (dodging and parrying) becomes a different number, hit points should be more tightly defined as solely a character's physical health and resilience. I've seen HRs like this where a character's Con was his HP, and it didn't increase with level unless the Con score increased or the character took a feat such as Toughness.

In my own yet-to-be-tested HRs, I made combat an opposed roll, the attacker rolling against the target's melee to-hit (for parrying) or his defense bonus (as per UA).

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

As I understand it, Hit Points take into consideration how good someone is at avoiding injury. Fighters and barbarians have more HP because they are more skilled at turning a deadly blow into a glancing one, even unarmored.

I don't think this works too well-- hit points need to remain a measure of toughness, because many environmental and exertion effects deal subdual damage, which is based on hp. Hit points don't allow you to survive having a spear in your liver, they let you keep fighting when you're covered in dozens of minor cuts.

That's why I like MDT = CON; hit points still serve their intended purpose, but high-level Fighters and Barbarians lose the ability to simply ignore things that would kill lesser characters. (The Fortitude Save DC needs to scale for this to work, though.)

 

[LordBOB]

ok guys so i was doing some thinking... ( which can be dangerous to me or anyone else around me)

Fighters know that they WILL get into a battle and they WILL get hit. Of course NOONE wants to get hit up the side the head no matter what. So fighters will do anything possible to advoid getting hit cause i dont know about you, but i do NOT like to be hit in the side of the face with a giant club.....can someone say OUCH!?!?!?!?!?!

Since fighters know they will get hurt, they spend some time training to advoid wounds at all cases, they also tone thier bodies to be naturally tougher than others. He does what he can to advoid the wounds but his body is so "tuned" from the strenious workouts that he develops natural armor as well and if he does get hit he can simply "shrug" some of the damage off.

Basically what im trying to say is that instead of adding all of your bonuses to AC, i would only add 1/2 to your AC.......and the other half as a damage reduction thing( or whatever you want to call it)

 

[Sravoff]

ok guys so i was doing some thinking... ( which can be dangerous to me or anyone else around me)

Fighters know that they WILL get into a battle and they WILL get hit. Of course NOONE wants to get hit up the side the head no matter what. So fighters will do anything possible to advoid getting hit cause i dont know about you, but i do NOT like to be hit in the side of the face with a giant club.....can someone say OUCH!?!?!?!?!?!

Since fighters know they will get hurt, they spend some time training to advoid wounds at all cases, they also tone thier bodies to be naturally tougher than others. He does what he can to advoid the wounds but his body is so "tuned" from the strenious workouts that he develops natural armor as well and if he does get hit he can simply "shrug" some of the damage off.

Basically what im trying to say is that instead of adding all of your bonuses to AC, i would only add 1/2 to your AC.......and the other half as a damage reduction thing( or whatever you want to call it)

Wow So that means a 20th lefel fighter gets an AC of 20, plus armor, and DR 10/-???? Peasents could beat on him all day long with any pikes they wanted! A little broken in my opinion,

-Sravoff

 

[Nyaricus]

ok guys so i was doing some thinking... ( which can be dangerous to me or anyone else around me)

this wasnt dangerous, but . . .

Basically what im trying to say is that instead of adding all of your bonuses to AC, i would only add 1/2 to your AC.......and the other half as a damage reduction thing( or whatever you want to call it)

its WAY to powerful! yeesh. maybe if you are playing in some mad gestalt/powergaming game, but thats just wrong! My Berserker class has Dr 10/-, but has been posted on the threads and is going through some balance issues and discusions. If this is how you play your standard game, then okay, but your wording (in that you are simply suggesting this as a fair rule or something) gives me the shivers (and i hope none of my player see that, itll be a stampede of HR fighters )