Defense Roll

[Meatpuppet]

I was wondering if anyone uses the "Defense Roll" rule variant found in the DMG (p25)? (Each time you're attacked your roll a d20 (+ bonuses) to determine your armor class)

It looks promising but before using it, I'd sure like some feedback.

Thanx in advance

 

[Goose]

Thats just alot of extra rolls, but ive used the same varaint for spell DC's before and it worked just fine. Sometimes its almost impossible to resist a spell, other times its too easy for it to get resisted. 10 is anice average number. Try it out for a few fights to see if you like all the rolling.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's a lot easier for spells because each character doesn't toss a lot of spells each turn. This variant gets increasingly more cumbersome at higher levels, especially for the figher types and the two-weapon fighter, who is the worst. Add in to the mix spells that require attack rolls and summoned monsters, and it's a lot of rolling and calculating. That's why we don't use it.

 

[wedgeski]

We tried it for a while during a low-level campaign. It has all the disadvantages associated with slowing combat down, but we did find that there was a bonus 'giving PC's something to do when they're being attacked' factor which almost made up for it. At lower levels, when a single crit can send even a good PC into negative numbers, giving him a hand in his own destiny is a valuable addition to the game. At high levels I'm pretty sure it would just be a pain in the butt, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other.

 

[Medwyn]

I've been using a similar rule for a while now.
As a DM the only rolls I make seem to be for damage (and sometimes players roll for that too).

NPC just have a DC and players have to beat it.

I try to keep it simple and have players only roll at the start of each round and record it form there.

 

[Christian]

We tried it for a while during a low-level campaign. It has all the disadvantages associated with slowing combat down, but we did find that there was a bonus 'giving PC's something to do when they're being attacked' factor which almost made up for it. At lower levels, when a single crit can send even a good PC into negative numbers, giving him a hand in his own destiny is a valuable addition to the game. At high levels I'm pretty sure it would just be a pain in the butt, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other.

Another variant I've seen that gives you the advantages without the disadvantages is to use defense rolls for PC's versus 'average' attack rolls. Basically, on any attack, it's the player that's rolling to determine the success rather than the DM, regardless of who's attacking. PC attacks work according to the standard rules, attack roll vs. target AC. When a monster/NPC attacks a PC, the PC rolls a d20 plus his relevant AC bonuses against a target of 11+the monster/NPC's total attack bonus. (I'll leave the reason for 11+ rather than 10+ on this as an exercise for the reader.) If this roll succeeds, the monster misses, otherwise it hits. A 20 on this roll is an automatic success (just like a 1 is an automatic failure on an attack roll) and a 1 is an automatic failure. Critical threats likewise mirror the standard system-on a 1, or possibly a higher failed roll for attacks with greater threat ranges, the player rolls a second defense roll to avoid a critical hit ... I haven't tried this, but I haven't seen any problems with it.

 

[SBMC]

One of the main issues I see with this that has not already been mentioned is that it upsets the greater mechanics of AC and BAB.

It really makes it a necessity for everyone to go after a super high AC (which of course means other things do not get attained; such as buying other sorts of magic items). This is something attainable with relative ease by a Fighter, Paladin or Cleric (as it should be).

However then that hurts the other classes who normally have a lower AC and the types of items they can use (such as bracers and rings) are far more expensive than armor and shield enhancements. Of course this is offset by these other classes additional abilites; but with all of the mechanics as is; unchanged.

On the same token now an opposing character's BAB is either negated (one of the primary factors of a combative class such as the fighter) or becomes stupidly high (hit anything); depending on a high or low roll.

Sure over time the averages work out to ten; but then again it is the "swings" (game theory) that hurt your PC (or help); that low AC gets you killed today (since everyone can hit you); thus the subsequent rolls required for that "average" to work out are irrelevant given your dead today.

 

[Meatpuppet]

Thank you all for your replies.

Finally, I don't think I'm gonna use that variant. Like some of you said, it's going to become to much dice rolling (at higher level that is). To avoid this, the DMG suggests that every character should roll their AC only once each round but somehow, IMHO, it doesn't have the same appeal.

As for letting the players roll all the dice, it was one of the first rule variant, I fished out of UA. It looked very good on paper (and it still does), but unfortunatly my player's weren't ready for it.

I see that some of you use the spell roll variant (D20 + spell lvl+ability modifier to determine spell DC). Doesn't it downplay spellcasters too much?

 

[DanMcS]

When a monster/NPC attacks a PC, the PC rolls a d20 plus his relevant AC bonuses against a target of 11+the monster/NPC's total attack bonus. (I'll leave the reason for 11+ rather than 10+ on this as an exercise for the reader.)

Because it says so in Unearthed Arcana.

But UA is actually wrong, it should be 12+NPC's total attack bonus because of the way checks versus a DC work in d20 rules.

 

[DanMcS]

I see that some of you use the spell roll variant (D20 + spell lvl+ability modifier to determine spell DC). Doesn't it downplay spellcasters too much?

It's the same as the way psionics worked in 3.0. It never seemed to work real well. Our psion had a good enough bonus, and would target weak saves I think. So if he hadn't been rolling, but had been taking 10, then the monster would probably have blown the save. Since he was rolling, he had a 50% chance of being absolutely screwed. Putting in the spell roll was double jeapordy for him, and always seemed to result in the player going "CRAP!"

So we never used that for wizards, and took it out for the psion and let him use 10 as the base for his powers.