Defining "old school" by vote

[Bullgrit]

There’s a lot of “old school” discussion going on right now (and I know this is the second thread I, myself, have started). But people seem to be using a variety of definitions for what they think of as “old school.” It’s kind of hard to understand one another when the main term being discussed is not defined.

I mean, if one person says, “Old school sucks,” because he’s thinking how his old school experience required him to tear out a fingernail to play. And another person says, “Old school rocks,” because he’s thinking how his old school experience suggested having well manicured fingernails when playing. Well, the discussion really gets nowhere.

So, let’s see what we can all agree is a part of “old school” style. The list in this poll is not exhaustive, it is just some of the larger aspects that I’ve seen thrown into the “old school” bucket.

Bullgrit

 

[Leatherhead]

So "old school" is the kinds of games you played in highschool?

 

[Bullgrit]

So "old school" is the kinds of games you played in highschool?

Are you asking me this? I don't understand what brings up this question.

Bullgrit

 

[mach1.9pants]

Well none of those really work for me as old school. To me old school is a non-unified and (often) random rules system. There is no hide nor hair to the logic of many of DnD and ADnD rules, dice choices, etc. Future rule sets that are not old school IMO tried to make things more streamlined, starting at 2E, which is quasi-old school to me.

Almost all of the things in your poll are play style rather than rules statements and IMO old school is a rules system rather than a play time. Just my opinion though

EDIT: I suppose byzantine and arcane rules is closest, but I think you can have rules lite (like BECMI) old school

 

[Leatherhead]

Are you asking me this? I don't understand what brings up this question.

Bullgrit

Oh, I read your post too fast.


But thinking on it, that is probably one of the best definitions you are going to get. Mostly because old school means "the way things used to be."

 

[amysrevenge]

I kind of hope that this thread doesn't die horribly...

Personally, I've come to suspect that I define "old school" wildly differently than people who claim to like old school define it.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I usually use the term 'old school' to refer to rpgs (particularly D&D) from 1974 to around 1985, features thereof and associated play styles.

To me, the following are old school:
No roleplaying, in the sense of the PC having a distinct personality from the player.
Gamism
Zoo dungeons - Different kinds of monsters living in close proximity. Maybe a mad wizard stops them fighting each other.
Mega dungeons
Killer DMs - They must've existed in abundance or Gary wouldn't have warned us in the 1e DMG.
Monty Haulism - As above
Large parties, lots of henchmen and hirelings, hearkening back to the wargaming roots.
Party caller
Sexism - "Fighting Man"
Arbitrary traps and other 'gotchas' - See Tomb of Horrors for many examples.
Erol Otus art
Enormous diversity, much greater than today
D&D as a synonym for rpg, related to the above point

I see old school as being mostly a bad thing, but not always. I love Erol Otus, for example.

 

[AngryMojo]

Personally, I've come to suspect that I define "old school" wildly differently than people who claim to like old school define it.

I tend to agree with this statement. I think the main debate over "old school" vs. "new school" is mostly a problem of varying terminology.

 

[Henry]

For me, the common themes were:

PCs used as playing pieces
DM as referee
Dungeons with no “ecological” sense, just full of monsters to slay
Vast treasure hoards and plenty of magic items
Vast campaign worlds for the PCs to live and grow in
Years on a calendar (dates when material was published)
Generally good

Back in our days of AD&D, it wasn't "Bob's Campaign", it was "Bob's Dungeon", which was used in the same sense you'd use "Campaign" today. In fact, I coined the use of "Campaign" in our group, I think. We don't remember the time "John's character Eldazar talked the king into lending us the forces needed to go to war against the evil one," we remembered the time "John's Cavalier jumped off a cliff, made his dex check to grab the Balor, and stabbed him to death with a +3 dagger and rode the body down to the ground."

My highest level character, a 9th level Druid named "Linnaeus" after the Botanist, had the most magic items of any character I ever had, sporting among other things, a +5 Scimitar of Speed, +5 leather armor, and a girdle of hill giant strength! He was also quite a monetarily wealthy man, as well -- druidic lack of materialism be damned.

adventures were deathtraps with enormous rewards attached, and once you made it out with enough gold to finance the U.S. Debt, hey, it was time to make up a new character. Roll 4d6 six times, drop lowest, and get going!

That's what old school was to me, and God, was it just as fun as any immersive pauper-crawl with involved back-story I've ever been in to date. Both have their appeal, depending on whether the DM was paying attention to his players.

 

[S'mon]

"DM as referee" is the only one I felt able to tick.

My feeling is that it comes down to Dragonlance. Everything pre Dragonlance and unlike Dragonlance can reasonably be called "Old School D&D". Pretty well everything about Dragonlance is un-Old School.

So, Old School requires:

An open setting.
PCs can die.
No pre-set story arc.

Some pre-DL competition modules are, then, only weakly Old School. In particular the Slavers series has a sometimes-railroaded story arc, designed for competition play, though the rails aren't nearly as tight as in DL or some modern 'adventure paths'.

The GDQ series is sufficiently open in design, basically a series of loosely linked locales, that I think it's ok to call it moderately OS.