Defining "Your Opponent" in a spell

[Saeviomagy]

But as you know, Speak Languages skill says:

[b]
Language   Typical Speakers[/b]
Celestial     Good outsiders
Common     Humans, halflings, half-elves, half-orcs

Celestial Bears certainly most resemble the former.

And even if they WERE good outsiders, celestial would still not be their primary language. So saying that they're ALMOST good outsiders doesn't really make much of an argument.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Number 2 - the guy definately gets blessed, whether or not you know he's there. Area spells don't require you to know of the presence of targets, and you definately know the guy is an ally.

Good complex examples

I always liked using doppelgangers in mine.

A hostile doppelganger, disguised as the cleric's ally, is present. Is it blessed?
A hostile doppelganger, disguised as the cleric's ally, is present, but invisible, and the cleric doesn't know it's there... but if he did know it was there, he'd think it was his friend. Is it blessed?



-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

And even if they WERE good outsiders, celestial would still not be their primary language. So saying that they're ALMOST good outsiders doesn't really make much of an argument.

I disagree. Shall we now debate "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?"

 

[moritheil]

Way to not quote all relevant parts of my post

Yes, I think it's a nitpick. Okay, your bear isn't going to be able to be explicitly directable if you don't have the ability to speak with it. I know this. I mentioned it. I didn't go into the details because it wasn't part of the issue at hand.

Not without Speak With Animals

A Celestial Bear would understand Common, but not a normal animal.

-Hyp.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I disagree.

You disagree that they don't understand Celestial? Even though they don't? Or are you saying that if they were Good Outsiders that they would understand Celestial?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

But as you know, Speak Languages skill says:

[b]
Language    Typical Speakers[/b]
Celestial   Good outsiders
Common      Humans, halflings, half-elves, half-orcs

And Celestial Bears certainly most resemble the former.

Except, of course, that they aren't Good outsiders.

They're good-aligned Magical Beasts.

 

[coyote6]

Except, of course, that they aren't Good outsiders.

They're good-aligned Magical Beasts.

That come from good-aligned planes, where presumably Celestial is the "native language". And yet, they speak Common, for some inexplicable reason.

Myself, I think it's neater if the golden furred bears of Mt. Celestia speak Celestial rather than the human tongue.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That come from good-aligned planes, where presumably Celestial is the "native language". And yet, they speak Common, for some inexplicable reason.

Actually, they don't speak anything.

They comprehend Common - as do the majority of creatures on every plane of existence.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Good complex examples

I always liked using doppelgangers in mine.

A hostile doppelganger, disguised as the cleric's ally, is present. Is it blessed?
A hostile doppelganger, disguised as the cleric's ally, is present, but invisible, and the cleric doesn't know it's there... but if he did know it was there, he'd think it was his friend. Is it blessed?



-Hyp.

In the first case - assuming the cleric hasn't sussed him, he's blessed.

In the second case, I have to make a decision as to whether the cleric has or has not sussed him. I'd probably have to surreptitiously ask "do you have any unusual suspicion's you'd like to make me aware of?" somewhere between the cleric's blessing and the first attack/will save the doppleganger must make.

It's a lot harder in the case where you KNOW that the guy has suspicions, but the NPC is (supposedly) totally divorced from the situation - there's not a way to surreptitiously get the information from the caster.

 

[dcollins]

You disagree that they don't understand Celestial? Even though they don't? Or are you saying that if they were Good Outsiders that they would understand Celestial?

Celestial is by definition and naming itself, the language spoken by Celestials.