Deities and Demigods ~ Utility Concerns

[Upper_Krust]

Re: problems with the rules

Hi there!

2) The increased energy resistance is ONLY applied to fire

No it isn't.

That said the 'Increased Energy Resistance' SDA is pointless given the 'Extra Energy Immunity' SDA. Who is going to take +20 sonic resistance when they could take sonic immunity that works against deities of a higher rank!?

Extra Energy Immunity should require a suitable Domain prerequisite (at least).

7) Deities start with 32 points, gain +1 per Divine Rank, and +1 per 4 Class Levels.

According to Skip Williams they applied a 'divine array' of ability scores: 37; 28; 25; 24; 24; 24. Then you gain +1 (total) per Divine Rank and add +1 per 4 class levels.

That said, I don't agree this is the best method.

Deities begin with 40 class levels and the equivalent of 20 Outsider Levels (treat as Expert), -1 level per HD of the base creature.

There is no level prerequisite for divinity.

eg. Imhotep (a Demigod) has 20 levels; Nike (a Demigoddess) has 20 HD + 40 Levels.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Upper Krust !

Hi Rashak!

I agree completely that info reinforcing better the priesthood with the Gods should have been included... who cares about Stats when most cant even dare touch these divinities.

I think the stats for the deities will become a lot more relevant when the Epic Level Handbook is released.

Though as described in D&Dg the stats are to much of a system shock to existing campaigns. Much better to have scaled things differently so you would have Prestige Classes; then Divine Champions ('Chosen of'); then Avatars; then Deities. Each facilitating a different level of play.

A little more background... a little more Clergy info... a little more appetizers and extra powers would have been more interesting. Even as a reference book its not so useful...

Its a good read, but they do seem to have been caught in two minds as to the primary function of the book and as a result it is neither a great resource on deities or on priesthoods, but a somewhat disjointed juxtaposition of both.

But the art is great...

True.

I didn't like the illustrations by Matt Mitchell (Re-Horakty; Bes; Ptah; Thoth and Hermod).

I was also a little disappointed with Sam Woods contribution. Hes a fantastic artist (his work in the Monster Manual was amazing) but some of his peices of late seem rushed/unfinished - at least up to his usual standard.

The work of Wayne Reynolds; Glenn Angus; Mark Cavotta; Rebecca Guay and Arnie Swekel, for me, stood out! But I am sure everyone has their own opinions.

 

[Belgarath]

Re: Re: problems with the rules

The divine immunity does not work against dieties of equal or greater rank, but the energy resistance does. Thus this ability does function in a vital role.

I hate to disagee with you Claude, but page 26 state "Deities of rank 1 or higher are immune to electricity, cold, and acid even if the attacker is a deity of higher divine rank"

Thanks for the info on the diety stats Upper_Crust.

 

[Emiricol]

Imhotep is a very specific exception to the rule that applies to virtually every other deity listed, because he was simply an asended mortal. He is therefore not a measure by which to gauge the overall rule.

As to attributes, there may well be deities using base other than 32 points, but if so, I haven't found them (but did not do all of them, just enough to determine that it was the base guideline.) YMMV.

As to the energy resistance, the specific quote is this:

"Resistances: All deities have at least the following resistances. Individual deities may have additional resistances.
Energy Resistance: A deity as fire resistance of 20+ its divine rank."(pg.26)

Meanthile, its Immunities include:

"Energy Immunity: Deities of rank 1 or higher are immune to electricity, cold and acid, even if the attacker is a deity of higher divine rank. Some deities have additional immunities."

So I am sure one can point to a couple exceptions, but the above applies to the vast majority, and clearly show that the extra fire energyResistance is not redundant with its energy immunities.

I hope this helps clarify for you.

Cheers,

-Emiricol

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again!

Imhotep is a very specific exception to the rule that applies to virtually every other deity listed, because he was simply an asended mortal. He is therefore not a measure by which to gauge the overall rule.

Actually, there is no rule.

As to attributes, there may well be deities using base other than 32 points, but if so, I haven't found them (but did not do all of them, just enough to determine that it was the base guideline.) YMMV.

As far as I can tell almost none of them use base 32 points.

As to the energy resistance, the specific quote is this:

"Resistances: All deities have at least the following resistances. Individual deities may have additional resistances.
Energy Resistance: A deity as fire resistance of 20+ its divine rank."(pg.26)

Meanthile, its Immunities include:

"Energy Immunity: Deities of rank 1 or higher are immune to electricity, cold and acid, even if the attacker is a deity of higher divine rank. Some deities have additional immunities."

So I am sure one can point to a couple exceptions, but the above applies to the vast majority, and clearly show that the extra fire energy Resistance is not redundant with its energy immunities.

Extra Energy Resistance (Fire for example) is a redundant Salient Divine Ability given that Extra Energy Immunity is also listed.

Why chose +20 Fire Resistance when you can chose complete fire immunity!?

I hope this helps clarify for you.

 

[Emiricol]

By rule I mean "rule of thumb" as in, the baseline used throughout. I hope this clarifies your confusion.

Seems you and I disagree on the numbers. I think I am right, you think you are. Cool with me.

As to why take +20 vs an immunity, I would suggest that it might be because the +20 is free and the immunity costs a SDA slot. Some deities would prefer to spend that SDA on something else, I am sure.

Cheers,

Emiricol

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Emericol mate!

By rule I mean "rule of thumb" as in, the baseline used throughout. I hope this clarifies your confusion.

Fair enough.

You could say Demigods and Lesser Gods are generally given between 40-60 HD/Levels; Intermediate Gods and Greater Gods are generally given between 50-70 HD/Levels.

Seems you and I disagree on the numbers. I think I am right, you think you are. Cool with me.

Simple mathematics as far as I can tell!

That said it is well known that the ability scores in the book don't always add up even according to WotCs methods.

As to why take +20 vs an immunity, I would suggest that it might be because the +20 is free and the immunity costs a SDA slot. Some deities would prefer to spend that SDA on something else, I am sure.

I'm talking about the two Salient Divine Abilities:

Extra Energy Immunity pg. 44
Increased Energy Resistance pg. 45

The latter grants 'Resistance' 20 + Divine Rank. The former grants 'Immunity'. Obviously 'Resistance' is therefore irrelevant.

What they should have stipulated was:

1. That all deities initially gain Resistance 20 + DR for all energy types.
2. They can then take 'Increased Energy Resistance' SDA for single energy types.
3. They can then take 'Energy Immunity' for single energy types provided they already have the 'Resistance' SDA for that type of energy.

Cheers,

Emiricol

All the best mate!

 

[Emiricol]

Despite my wishes, I have to agree with you That would have been a better way of handling it. And I was not really clear you were comparing SDA to SDA, as I see you figured out. Thanks for clearing up MY confusion lol. At least we understand each other heh.

Cheers,

Emiricol

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Emericol mate!

Despite my wishes, I have to agree with you

Don't waste wishes disagreeing with me!

That would have been a better way of handling it.

I'll probably suggest it in my book. I don't like the idea of gods immune to almost everything from the start.

And I was not really clear you were comparing SDA to SDA, as I see you figured out.

Thats okay, easy to get confused with so many rules flying about.

Thanks for clearing up MY confusion lol. At least we understand each other heh.

Cheers,

Emiricol

Take care mate!

 

[SSS-Druid]

...Oh, and Odin got the shaft!

Of course he did.

Freya wouldn't teach him seidr otherwise.

*ducks*

EDIT: Blast. Flubbed my tags. Bad poster. No cookie.