Deities & Demigods

[pawsplay]

Has anyone looked at retooling Deities and Demigods, post 3.5? Originally the idea seemed sort of trivial, but several things have occured to me.

First, a few characters need revision. Gnomes now favor Bard, so it seems like Garl should have his Illusionist levels converted to Bard levels.

Second, none of them were created with Prestige Classes. I understand, I think, the reason for that. Maximum generic appeal, as well as the philosophy that PrC's are inherently optional. It means you don't need anything but the core books and Deities to run them. However, there seem like some obvious candidates. For instance, the Complete Warrior made me consider replacing 10 of Kord's Barbarian levels with Frenzied Berserker levels. Corellon Larethian perhaps could use some Bladesinger levels. And if Vecna isn't an Archmage, who is?

Third, the mechanical revisions I thought about that didn't seem that interesting before on their own. The changes to DR would be number one, I think.

 

[MerakSpielman]

It also wasn't created with Epic levels in mind. The god of magic only has 20 wizard levels? Puh-leeeze.

Not that anybody IMC is likely to encounter gods, but I thought it would be reasonalble to double the class levels they possess.

 

[pawsplay]

It also wasn't created with Epic levels in mind. The god of magic only has 20 wizard levels? Puh-leeeze.

Not that anybody IMC is likely to encounter gods, but I thought it would be reasonalble to double the class levels they possess.

I wouldn't consider it problematic, except that the characters most likely to encounter gods are epic characters. There are Salient Abilities that cover supreme casting ability, and the 20 Outsider HD could be considered the base measurement of a god's competence. Nonetheless, I'd probably put a 25 many places I see level 20, especially in the case of ascended gods like Vecna. At least, I'd give him 5 level of Archmage, and 5 levels of Hierophant, as he is basically the head of his own little cult.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Second, none of them were created with Prestige Classes. I understand, I think, the reason for that. Maximum generic appeal, as well as the philosophy that PrC's are inherently optional.

Hades: Ftr20/Rog10/Assassin10
Anubis: Clr20/Wiz15/Loremaster5
Set: Ftr20/Clr10/Blackguard10
Sobek: Rog20/Assassin10
Thoth: Wiz20/Clr10/Loremaster10

 

[pawsplay]

Hades: Ftr20/Rog10/Assassin10
Anubis: Clr20/Wiz15/Loremaster5
Set: Ftr20/Clr10/Blackguard10
Sobek: Rog20/Assassin10
Thoth: Wiz20/Clr10/Loremaster10

Heh. That's just weird. Of all the places to do crazy with the Prestige Classes, why the Egyptian pantheon?

 

[Otterscrubber]

I always thought it was a bit ridiculous to even put gods in statistical terms relateing to PCs. Even the rules for PCs change when they hit epic, yet the Gods are limited to 20th level just to crank out a book. Kinda sad really, there are many other oddities as well. C'mon, why would any god, such as those listed above only have 10 Cleric levels. You'd think any god with followers would automatically be 20th lvl as a cleric, regardless of what their focus is.

If an attempt to list gods using PC rules is neccessary then they do need way more levels than 20 in whatever their prime class is going to be. Most of the Gods of magic are unable to cast many of the Epic level spells.

 

[dcollins]

I have very little problem with Deities & Demigods rules (other than the "annhilating strike" ability). Instead, I tend to find fault with the Epic Rules and its power inflation and disjointedness from the core rules. I wouldn't want the non-core WOTC books to be any more interdependent than they currently are.

 

[MarauderX]

I agree with not trying to put numbers on the gods, as it is kinda loony to think that a pack of PC epic players can take one down without the god being aware of it, preparing for it, and thwarting them before it could ever happen. IMO, the book treats them as really tough outsiders that aren't responsible for divine or arcane abilities, and just wage their own uber-wars for what they believe in. I take the stats given in the book as for the material plane, but rev up the levels for each class they have up to double. It seems the mortals on another plane happen to be observing and kinda know what is going on.

As far as spells, I wouldn't bother to create spell lists or research which spells they have. Based on the Salient abilities, which are much more profound, they can will realities to be what they wish. IMC, magic, life, matter and all the other things out there were constructed by them, why would they ever lose that control? Arcane spells just flow from them, naturally, just as divine magic, just as control over their physical surroundings, and they adjust the rules as they wish instead of abidding by those the characters are bound to. Being harmed by magic is the same as being harmed physically - why would they let themselves be hurt by the fabric of the multiverse they are in control of?

Some other descrepancies occur between Deities & Demigods and some other books, such as BoVD, as many of the demons and devils there are immune to +5 or even +6 weapons, and the gods themselves are only immune up to +4. Also the locations of the gods in the D&D pantheon is kinda iffy, considering which god is where, and how sometimes they are supposed to be concerned with the actions of men on the material plane, but on a whim they have no concern.

One last thing... there are only two gods with ranks in monk, making them the fastest runners vs. all of the others. Goofy, eh? I guess I would assume the gods would have 20 levels of each class, and add on the rest for epic and beyond if they were to be compared to the PCs using the same scale.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Well, it should be remembered that there is a discussion in Dieties and Demigods about "immortality" and the different ways you can interperet in in your campaign. You can have eternal, unchanging gods, gods that are little more than ascended people with all of their failures, gods that can or can't be killed, etc...

If your gods are akin to the Greek pantheon, I can see how uber-heroes might be able to take them down. Greek gods were fallible, easily tricked by mortal ploys, etc... They were powerful, but nowhere near ALL-powerful.

 

[pawsplay]

I agree with not trying to put numbers on the gods, as it is kinda loony to think that a pack of PC epic players can take one down without the god being aware of it, preparing for it, and thwarting them before it could ever happen.

I'd bet money Vecna did exactly that. Anyway, my point was not to raise a debate as to whether gods can be statted. I wanted to hear some thoughts on how people might re-stat the gods for 3.5 using Deities & Demigods type stats.

As for Epic Spellcasting, Boccob already has Knowledge (arcana) +127 and Spellcraft +127. If you really feel like he has to cast the spells from the Epic Level Handbook, just replace Alertness with Epic Spellcasting. Personally, I think with Alter Reality, Divine Spellcasting, and Spontaneous Wizard spells, he's a god of magic enough for anyone.

My main beef is that their signature weapons are almost universally too weak. Not only do very few have a +6 or higher bonus, most of them don't even add up to +10 bonus for spell abilities. Ehlonna wields a +5 holy mighty composite longbow.