Delay from Surprise Round into First Round

[Thanee]

It's surely strange, but not so much as one might think initially.

The sorcerer does give up something to do that.

For example, the opportunity to cast a spell in the surprise round at 7 and then another one in the first round at 7.

Basically, the sorcerer did not rush out during the surprise round, but rather waited for a moment to be able to cast the spell in a complete fashion.

Anyways, not that I do not really agree, just saying, that it isn't so bad as it might look.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Len]

He could shoot the spell faster because he delayed. That is quite strange, isn't it?

Note that he had to give up a move action in return for moving up in the initiative order.

 

[the Jester]

I thought "Delay" was a full-round action, not even allowing for a 5' step. That means you can't delay in a surprise round (though you can ready). Am I wrong about this?

 

[Christian]

Nope. 'Delay' is listed as 'not an action' in the tables. Of course, that leaves the option of arguing that one cannot delay in a surprise round at all, since the surprise rules indicate that characters can take one standard or move action, and one or more free actions, in a surprise round, but say nothing about doing 'non-actions'.

 

[the Jester]

Nope. 'Delay' is listed as 'not an action' in the tables. Of course, that leaves the option of arguing that one cannot delay in a surprise round at all, since the surprise rules indicate that characters can take one standard or move action, and one or more free actions, in a surprise round, but say nothing about doing 'non-actions'.

Interesting... am I misremembering from 3.0, or just on crack? Who can say?

Seriously, I'll have to look again at the changes in 3.5 to Delay and Ready. And probably about a million other lil things... :\

 

[Marimmar@Home]

I always thought that there are no rounds per se, only rounds for individuals. So delaying through the surprise round will only enable you to reduce you initiative count and take you limited action. When delaying until your next turn you get to act normally at your initially rolled initiative.

~Marimmar

 

[Christian]

Interesting. I pulled out my 3.0 rules to see, and it was significantly different (and not an issue) in that edition. Delay was still not an action, but you couldn't delay into the next round-if you delayed past the initiative count of -10-your initiative bonus, you lost your action for the round. To 'delay' into the next round, you used the Refocus action, which was a full-round action and therefore unavailable in the surprise round ... Refocus, of course, got dropped in 3.5 and replaced with the ability to Delay into a subsequent round.

To simulate the 3.0 effects under the new rules, characters Delaying in the surprise round would not be able to hold their action past the end of the surprise round. This might be a good solution; under our suggestion above, someone who delayed past the first actor in the regular round (but not as far as his initiative roll) would still only get a standard action, even though the person before him got a full-round action, which is also a bit weird. Perhaps the 3.0 rule for Delay should be included for Delays taken during the surprise round.

 

[Coredump]

I say let them take a full action. It seems to make perfect sense to me.

Three people get to act in surprise round. Roll 17, 13, 7 (as above)

If '7' doesn't delay f

17standard, 13standard, 7standard, 17full, 13full, 7full.

If '7' does delay

17standard, 13standard, 7full, 17full, 13full.

So all 7 does is turn a standard into a full, at the cost of a full round action. Sounds more than balanced to me.


IOW.... 3 enemies run into each other.17, 13, 7 all get to act in the surprise round, and they all react on instinct, and draw their swords.
Then next round, they all get to make a full round attack. 17, 13, then 7.

Or.... 17 and 13 react and quickly draw their swords. 7 pauses a split second to asses what is happening, then draws his sword and gets one attack. Then 17 and 13 get full attacks.


There are times when delaying is advantagous, and times when it is not, but it sure seems balanced. You are sacrificing a standard action in order to increase your initiative count. Isn't this the same thing done when readying an action normally?

.

 

[azmodean]

Now, he delays, and then choose act in the next round (1st regular round) at initiative count 16. If you allow him to take a full-round action, he can shoot an empowered Fireball now. Thus, at initiative count 16 of the 1st-regular round.

If I remember correctly (and it hasn't been changed) he would start casting at init 16 of the first regular round, and the spell effect would occur at init 16 of the second regular round.

I'd really like to know if this has been changed from 3.0, as this is the way I'm running it.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

Your reasoning is flawed Coredump. Accoring to your examlpes the guy with the lowest initiative suddenly is allowed to take a full action whereas the ones who go before are limited to a standard action. The guy with Init 7 doesn't give up anything and gains everything. Doesn't look right to me. Winning the Init should always be beneficial, not detrimental.

~Marimmar