Kaiyanwang
Adventurer
But the premise of the thread goes beyond a neutral analysis. Here the mere aesthetic of the Paladin was considered problematic.That's the point of discussing and critiquing these things
But the premise of the thread goes beyond a neutral analysis. Here the mere aesthetic of the Paladin was considered problematic.That's the point of discussing and critiquing these things
Actual, true evil should be fought without mercy indeed.
This is a controversial claim both in real life, and in the context of the fiction and tropes that underpin FRPGing.
I maintain is due to the cosmology.Indeed. If you fight without mercy, how are you different from the Evil you are supposedly fighting?
I maintain is due to the cosmology.
If you go from the Planescape/3e viewpoint, where Good, Evil,. Chaos, and Law are cosmic forces, and there are planes devoted entirely to these concepts, then yes, creatures who are wholly an alignment might exist- but canonically D&D also has fallen angels and redeemed fiends as well.There is no one "the cosmology" for D&D. Cosmology is a setting element, and can vary from one person's campaign world to another.
All literary things are chains. They are all influenced by what came before and they in turn influence what comes after. Nothing in literature exists in a vacuum. That's the point of discussing and critiquing these things - to illuminate where the ideas come from and how they are changing over time.
Because someone adapting, say, The Merchant of Venice, may not know all the things that Elizabethan English writers might know about Venice and the treatment of Jews of the time, but, if they make an adaptation that plays into Shylock being the villain and 100% deserving of his fate, they're very, very likely to slam into some pretty serious criticism of their work.
Fair enough, but in most cosmologies, outsiders are made of the material of the plane of origin, literally made of evil. I can agree that using non-official or official (see what James Gasik posted, that's a big one) material in which they work differently, a nuance closer to what is done with humanoids (say) is required.There is no one "the cosmology" for D&D. Cosmology is a setting element, and can vary from one person's campaign world to another.
Even a being made from a corrupted soul whos physical form is a manifestation of pure evil still has free will and can choose their path, no matter how difficult that path may be to take.
What does that even mean? Evil is not a substance. Evil is a subjective concept; it's a term that only has meaning when given context. You can't be made of evil. That's like being made of red, or made of comfort, etc..Fair enough, but in most cosmologies, outsiders are made of the material of the plane of origin, literally made of evil.
What does that even mean? Evil is not a substance. Evil is a subjective concept; it's a term that only has meaning when given context. You can't be made of evil. That's like being made of red, or made of comfort, etc..
You can say the words "a plane of pure evil," for example, but those words will mean something different to every single person. Some might picture something like their interpretation of a stereotypical Christian conception of Hell. Others might imagine a void. According to Sartre, Hell is other people.
That's why Gary Gygax can describe Lawful Good by using examples that sound plenty evil from my perspective.