Delta Green D20 is an unedited mess

[talien]

No question that the passage you've cited is an editing atrocity on oh so many levels, but your thread title is just a tad bit hysterical and somewhat misleading, don't you think?

I'll take your word that many of the d20 mechanical pieces are awful. If your cited passage is somehow representational of the other d20 sidebars, that's completely unacceptable and I'll gladly join you on the barricades.

But come on, the d20 mechanical sidebars are a pretty small part and of the whole book. I've been reading through everything BUT the mechanics and the editing of what I've read has been pretty good, if not excellent.

But this thread title makes it sound like the whole danged book is screwed up worse than the first printing of Mongoose's Conan book, which was probably the d20 low tide mark for editing.

Hysterical? Yes. Misleading? No.

My cited passage is indeed representational of the other d20 sidebars. It is completely unacceptable, and I invite you to join me at the barricades.

But really, this is the last d20 Cthulhu-type project we'll probably ever see, so there's nothing to barricade, I'm afraid.

As you said, the rest of the book IS excellent. So that only makes the stark contrast of horribly edited d20 stuff even more insulting. They can do a better job, they DID a better job, and yet chose not to for the d20 stuff.

For purposes of my use, apparently one of the few who bought it for use in a d20 campaign and plan to use the statistics in this new version, these errors most definitely screw up the "whole danged book" for me.

 

[talien]

It's just the original version with d20 stuff added, as Talien pointed out, fairly badly done. Honestly though, this was expected, because it seems obvious that the people writing the d20 stuff in the book didn't know anything about d20. And since CoC d20 isn't even in print anymore, I actually got the impression they just left the d20 stuff in because they didn't want to take it out, not that it was really relevent any more.

Yep.

They also accidently left out MJ-9 (I guess they had to redo the layout of the book to make room for the d20 stuff), but that was only a couple paragraphs.

Awww, sunova...!

 

[talien]

Uh-oh, I just pre-ordered the shiny new extra special edition yesterday. I've got the old version. Is there anythink extra in the new version worth having, or should I cancel my order?

The question becomes: do you want the d20 stats or can you convert them on your own?

My approach to Delta Green d20 wasn't as someone excited that the book was back in print, but as a GM discovering it for the first time. I read all the d20 statistics because I felt they were relevant to me. You could probably come up with better statistics on your own, depending on your needs. I like at least some of the material to be in d20 format because it makes my job easier.

For example, I also own DG: Countdown, and the book's very useful. All that and without the insulting "we-couldn't-be-bothered-to-learn-d20" entries.

So sad. DG's a beautiful book hardcover too.

P.S. If I remember correctly, there's also a monster listed as an "abomination" type when I think they meant "aberration."

 

[Psion]

Thanks for the warning. This was on my must-buy list.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Well, this is what I ordered:

http://www.yog-sothoth.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=362

I was assuming it was DG, plus d20, plus some other cool stuff. But since I've got the original sourcebook, if the other stuff isn't worth it, I'll just go ahead and cancel my order.

 

[trancejeremy]

I don't think it's they couldn't be bothered to learn d20 per se, it's just that BRP and d20 have completely different philosophies. BRP plays fast and loose with skills and often invents new rules for every situation on the fly (or in the scenario). d20 takes great pains to be balanced, and the rules are a lot more structured and defined.

Still, in this case, the Mi-Go Electric Gun is actually in the CoC d20 rulebook (p124), they were just reprinting it (badly, I guess someone just quickly typed it up and didn't even spell check).


I actually don't think Delta Green (as a concept) works all that well with CoC d20, because CoC d20 is even more deadly than BRP CoC (at least at lower levels, since characters get hit more and have less hit points than their BRP counterparts), and it tends to assume the PCs are more "normal" people, rather than spies or government agents or military. Even the "Offense Option" class in CoC d20 is really more a cop or something than a soldier or even an FBI/ATF guy. And based on the scenarios in the book, it seems like combat is fairly common in Delta Green adventures.

I think if you wanted to use d20 to run a Delta Green game, it would be a lot better to simply use Spycraft or d20 Modern and simply drop in the magic and sanity systems into it. Rather than try to use CoC d20 and the add-ons in this book.

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, this is what I ordered:

http://www.yog-sothoth.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=362

I was assuming it was DG, plus d20, plus some other cool stuff. But since I've got the original sourcebook, if the other stuff isn't worth it, I'll just go ahead and cancel my order.

Ah, that's a compilation of the Delta Green "chapbooks", which I think were originally 64 page adventures, all compiled into one book and expanded.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Well, in that case I suppose I'll keep it. I can do a d20 conversion on the fly if need be, and the adventures would make it easier for me to actually run a game, given time constraints.

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

I would definately keep the order for Eyes Only (I ordered mine as soon as I heard I could). The chapbooks are nigh-impossible to find. However, I don't think the book is going to have and D20 content.

As for Delta Green D20, I would only suggest it to people like me who didn't have the original book. I'm ecstatic to have a copy after so long. However, the D20 stats definately aren't worth a new purchase, and like TJ I think that Spycraft or D20 Modern would work better. (I was never all that thrilled with D20 Cthulhu, either, but that's neither here nor there).

 

[Twowolves]

I think it's fitting that the thread tag for this is "Horror", as it aptly describes the feeling I got when trying to read that d20 entry.