D&D General Demihumans of Color and the Thermian Argument

[Shiroiken]

At no point did I mock anyone; in fact I respect people who try. What I do roll my eyes at is when people either expect or judge other people on doing or not doing the same in a way that suits them, especially when they're the GM.

You mean like this?

I don't consider most of that "inhuman". Its either minor add-ons, things not that far off from things humans have done, or things that will probably not come up often enough to be noticeable.

Perhaps "mock" isn't the correct word, but perhaps "deride" is better. Your very own quote is something you would supposedly roll your eyes at, since you judged me on what I did in a way that doesn't suit you. While my ideas were very simple things brought about in the spur of the moment, your attitude appeared dismissive and condescending. This is not a sign of respect for those who try.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

About portraying non-humans:

I certainly feel that it is desirable if at least some attention is paid to the portrayal of non-humans, were it by the player, the GM or the setting writer. However, at the same time I don't think they need to be super incomprehensibly alien. Why would they? They're social, tool-using, bipedal creatures, almost always humanoids, mostly mammals and many appear to be some sort of hominids. They should have different adaptations and tendencies than humans, but they still are very similar to the humans.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Picking particular classes or subclasses, could push a Human character into an alien mindset too. I'm thinking classes like Warlock or Sorcerer, and especially some of the more niche subclasses like Way of the Astral Self Monk or Swarmkeeper Ranger. Whether they started out that way, or became that way when picking a subclass, those kind of things can push a Human (or anyone) into an alien mindset.

 

[Thomas Shey]

You mean like this?

Perhaps "mock" isn't the correct word, but perhaps "deride" is better. Your very own quote is something you would supposedly roll your eyes at, since you judged me on what I did in a way that doesn't suit you. While my ideas were very simple things brought about in the spur of the moment, your attitude appeared dismissive and condescending. This is not a sign of respect for those who try.

It wasn't deriding. It was suggesting that "inhuman" suggested something far more severe than he was actually talking about. At least one of the traits was withing normal human range (and probably two, given supertasters are a thing), and the other two were things that were specialized cases you could go through a whole campaign without noticing.

There are absolutely nonhumans written to be downright inhuman, though most of them are in SF rather than fantasy, so what the term suggested and what he meant seemed to have some serious dissonance, and it leads to things like my reaction of "I don't think most people can do that" and then him noting he does it regularly, because what he's talking about is, honestly, minor color issues and leaning in on things a subset of humans do.

Basically, I'm going to react to what people say; if that's not what they mean then I honestly have to suggest they use a term a little less loaded and a little more specific than "inhuman".

 

[Hussar]

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying; I think where the trouble comes in is when its expected, especially since the particular lines people are drawing are fundamentally arbitrary. And I think both the expectation and the arbitrariness of where that expectation lays has been quite visible in this thread.

At no point did I mock anyone; in fact I respect people who try. What I do roll my eyes at is when people either expect or judge other people on doing or not doing the same in a way that suits them, especially when they're the GM.

I have to admit, I do have some fairly strong expectations when someone comes to the table with a non-human race. Err, strong is probably the wrong word. But, I do expect it to be part of the portrayal of the character. If someone watching the game for a couple of sessions would have no idea what race a character is, then I get a bit shirty. As long as the player is making an honest attempt at it, I'm pretty content, regardless of quality. But, I've seen far too many players who played this or that race simply for the bonuses and it annoys me. I do consider it pretty bad play. Or, at the very least, not the kind of play I want to play with, if that's a better way of saying it.

Like I said, a little goes a long way. You don't need funny voices or anything like that. But, if you're playing a halfling (to use a somewhat abused example ) then maybe mentioning having difficulty getting into a chair or stairs once in a while wouldn't kill you. Part of role play, to me, is portraying a character. If the portrayal is so lacking that someone watching doesn't even know that you're not human? Yeah, I'm not really down with playing with that person. It just sucks all the joy out of the game for me.

 

[Fanaelialae]

It wasn't deriding. It was suggesting that "inhuman" suggested something far more severe than he was actually talking about. At least one of the traits was withing normal human range (and probably two, given supertasters are a thing), and the other two were things that were specialized cases you could go through a whole campaign without noticing.

There are absolutely nonhumans written to be downright inhuman, though most of them are in SF rather than fantasy, so what the term suggested and what he meant seemed to have some serious dissonance, and it leads to things like my reaction of "I don't think most people can do that" and then him noting he does it regularly, because what he's talking about is, honestly, minor color issues and leaning in on things a subset of humans do.

Basically, I'm going to react to what people say; if that's not what they mean then I honestly have to suggest they use a term a little less loaded and a little more specific than "inhuman".

By inhuman, I mean what is typical for a member of a given species is atypical (or impossible) for a typical human.

I've also used the term nonhuman (and maybe others as well) so I think leaning on the idea that the terminology is "loaded" is a bit disingenuous. It's not like it's the only term I've used. I'm simply trying to convey the notion defined above without having to use an entire sentence. If you have a suggestion for a better term that encompasses the above, go ahead.

 

[Argyle King]

Also, most non-white fantasy isn't in english. That's probably a bigger factor in why you haven't seen it; you have to wait until someone translates it from Japanese or whatever

True... assuming it's from a culture which typically writes that sort of thing down at all.

 

[Bohandas]

While I don't care about the skin color of demi-humans (they could be bright orange for all I care), I do feel that too many people look upon the original demi-humans as just "funny looking humans." They should have a culture and mentality completely alien to our own (humans), which helps disassociate them from any real world baggage that they may have started with. My examples:

• Dwarves are so in tune with the earth, they can feel the difference between each type of metal and stone. Certain metals, particularly gold and mithral, evoke a joyful sensation within them unknown to others.
• Elves have no concern for normal material wealth, concerned only with beauty. They only use them when they have to deal with the other races.
• Gnomes are part of the ecology of small burrowing creatures, once having innate claws that have faded away. Most creatures see them as a type of large burrowing animal, rather than a humanoid.
• Halflings have several senses that allow them to differentiate each ingredient of food & drink. By examining tilled earth, they can tell how long it lay fallow and the best type of crop to grow.

• 
  
  I particularly like the dwarf suggestion here as that ties naturally into their stonecunning trait

 

[Mirtek]

Take the earlier example of dwarves having an innate emotional connection to certain metals.

That's spending a minute to come up with something. Imagine if I actually took the time to properly world build that trait and work out the implications.

Actually I fail to see how any of what you describe is better than "orcs are warmongering conquerors because Gruumsh made them this way".

"Dwarves are innate emotional connection to certain metals" is just the same in a different coat and if that were part of a setting assumption you can be sure there would be people complaining and linking it this or that prejudice about a certain group of people.

"Giving a dwarf some gold might mean they instantly like you better, because you just literally made them happy." Yeah, as if that would not immediately rub some people the wrong way and give rise to certain accusations. And "but that's an inherent trait of their being" doesn't help at all.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Actually I fail to see how any of what you describe is better than "orcs are warmongering conquerors because Gruumsh made them this way".

"Dwarves are innate emotional connection to certain metals" is just the same in a different coat and if that were part of a setting assumption you can be sure there would be people complaining and linking it this or that prejudice about a certain group of people.

"Giving a dwarf some gold might mean they instantly like you better, because you just literally made them happy." Yeah, as if that would not immediately rub some people the wrong way and give rise to certain accusations. And "but that's an inherent trait of their being" doesn't help at all.

I think it can certainly be a bad thing if dwarves are meant to represent a real world group. Or even if one didn't intend it that way, but one of their players takes it to have that meaning.

This was just a quick example someone came up with however, to illustrate a trait that might establish dwarves as being different from humans. Also, the folks at my table know me well enough that in my game a dwarf is just a dwarf.

That said, if I offended you in any way, I apologize. To be clear, it was never intended that this example should be representative of anything in the real world.