D&D General Demihumans of Color and the Thermian Argument

[Fanaelialae]

Given I've seen people in related discussions largely suggest that even fantasy nonhumans should have extremely alien mindsets, I'm afraid I don't think context helps you much here.



I think there's a big gap between "has some traits based on having different senses or cultural differences" and "has radically different biology in multiple important ways", so no, I can't agree with your premise in this paragraph. Most nonhumans in fantasy are humanoids with not radically different diets or environmental tolerances or general social structures. There's quite a bit of difference between that and what you'd expect from a dog, even one with human levels of intelligence.

I don't think that many people (anyone?) have been suggesting that the elves and dwarves in the PHB are particularly nonhuman. We've been saying that we like to modify them to make them nonhuman.

Here's one from one of my actual campaigns, for example. The actual write up is fairly long, but I'll try to summarize it as best I can.

I changed elves so that they were (literally) the seeds of enormous world trees. The world trees basically ate some humanoids and used them as a template to create mobile seeds. Many of these elves were cautious. Rather than embracing YOLO, they perceived their humanoid form as a sort of pre-life. They were still waiting to be truly born. They were carnivorous, because the world trees become one with local vegetation (they literally are the forest) and to most elves being served veggies was akin to their mother's finger on a plate. They were also asexual, technically capable of reproducing sexually, but finding the idea of it disgusting. They saw themselves as having more in common with plants than animals, and looked forward to the day when they could (literally) set down roots. However, some did set out into the world, because if they remained near their parent, they would simply become one with their parent tree. If they wanted to become a true world tree, they needed to find their own lands to set roots in (and, hopefully, also protectors for when this time came). While there were elves in the world that ate their veggies and had sex, they were quite atypical for elves.

If what is considered typical for humans is atypical for these elves (specifically with regard to the species as a whole, rather than individual cultures), then I think that clearly demonstrates a nonhuman mindset. Even if an atypical member of that species might resemble a typical human mindset.

Regardless, I don't see a significant likelihood of this line of discussion going anywhere useful, so I will probably not respond further regarding this topic.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Regardless, I don't see a significant likelihood of this line of discussion going anywhere useful, so I will probably not respond further regarding this topic.

As you will. I think we've both expressed our opinions at this point.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

I would let a player play an elf or halfling etc. of whatever color they want. I do not see the big deal as we are playing to have fun in the first place so my players having fun means I have fun. Same thing goes for LGBT characters.

 

[slobster]

I would let a player play an elf or halfling etc. of whatever color they want. I do not see the big deal as we are playing to have fun in the first place so my players having fun means I have fun. Same thing goes for LGBT characters.

I don't let players portray straight characters in my games. Nothing against that, I just don't like people injecting politics into my gametime.

/s or whatever people need to know that I'm kidding.

 

[Bohandas]

I think there's a big gap between "has some traits based on having different senses or cultural differences" and "has radically different biology in multiple important ways", so no, I can't agree with your premise in this paragraph. Most nonhumans in fantasy are humanoids with not radically different diets or environmental tolerances or general social structures. There's quite a bit of difference between that and what you'd expect from a dog, even one with human levels of intelligence.

An ape or a monkey then, instead of a dog.

Or perhaps a dog vs a cat

 

[Bohandas]

Honestly, I can't help feel that most of these connections and implications people are seeing aren't really there. A lot of this conversation feels like it's only one step removed from the Manson Family's claims that the song Helter Skelter contained secret orders telling them to jumpstart the end of the world

 

[Thomas Shey]

An ape or a monkey then, instead of a dog.

Or perhaps a dog vs a cat

I'm not actually convinced an evolved ape would automatically be different enough from a human that the typical TV alien doesn't cover the job.

As for an intelligent dog versus an intelligent cat, that gets into imponderables, because there are some very catlike dogs and doglike cats, so there's some serious elements of nurture versus nature there.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Honestly, I can't help feel that most of these connections and implications people are seeing aren't really there. A lot of this conversation feels like it's only one step removed from the Manson Family's claims that the song Helter Skelter contained secret orders telling them to jumpstart the end of the world

In the end, with things like this, if enough people see it, whether its "there" in any objective sense is almost irrelevant.