Shroomy
Adventurer
Isn't St. Kargoth the Betrayer the first death knight in earlier editions? According to the MM, 4e death knights were first created by Orcus.
Demonically Illiterate; Who's this Demogorgon guy?
- Thread starter Rechan
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Isn't St. Kargoth the Betrayer the first death knight in earlier editions? According to the MM, 4e death knights were first created by Orcus.
My memory is a little foggy here but I think there were something like 12 Paladins from the Great Kingdom (Greyhawk CS) who were corrupted by our two headed boy into the first deathknights. I remember reading an article in one of my old Dragon Annuals about Kargoth but the details escape me. Perhaps this only applies to that specific setting (WGCS) and others like FR had thier own story such as Soth and DL.
Creeping Death
First Post
I know Soth's story, what's St. Kargoth's?
Mercule
Adventurer
Seriously? That's unfortunate.
Orcus is swell and all, but Demogorgon is much cooler. Actually, of all the demon princes, arch-devils, and various other outer-planar uniques, Demogorgon is the only "standard" one that is significant IMC.
Others probably exist, but Demogorgon has done some significant things. Orcus really isn't even a consideration anymore. The whole Tenebrous ascension thing was rather lame. Orcus has almost started seeming like some sort pet critter -- like Drizzt, but actually evil.
mhacdebhandia
Explorer
Actually, all it says is "The ritual to become a death knight is said to have originated with Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead."
Voadam
Legend
If I recall correctly he and the abyss are in Paradise Lost as well. I think the devil and such crash down through the abyss on their way to Hell as they are kicked out of heaven in the fall. Been a while and I don't remember it well though.
When I asked Gary Gygax about it on here in one of his ask gary threads he said he did not derive demogorgon from Paradise Lost but separate occult lore sources.
When I asked Gary Gygax about it on here in one of his ask gary threads he said he did not derive demogorgon from Paradise Lost but separate occult lore sources.
The Ecology of the Deathknight article in Dragon #360 (see WotC website) has a little bit about St. Kargoth. In the Greyhawk campaign setting, "Saint Kargoth was a noble human knight who, along with thirteen fellow knights, became a death knight after being corrupted by Demogorgon." Saint Kargoth and the thirteen fellow knights were also detailed in an earlier Dragon magazine article (or maybe it was in one of the Polyhedran issues bundled with Dungeon magazine) in a series of articles detailing people, places, and organizations in the World of Greyhawk - I just can't remember the issue number.
Hope that helps!
Seriously? I find him, as is, kinda boring. For the Prince of Demons, he sure does just sit on his monkey butt and go "Ho hum I am the Prince" "So am I".
At least Orcus has Undead, and a goal, and such.
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Orius
Unrepentant DM Supremacist
Don't forget the rod or wand or whatever it's called these days.
"ditto" -- I find Demogorgon meh, especially when he comes out of nowhere and eats me in Nethack.
In D&D, maybe I lack the lore exposure, but the only thing he's ever really done for me is steal what I'd've thought was Orcus' schtick.
That said... Graz'zt has never tickled my fancy either. Maybe I'm just defective
In D&D, maybe I lack the lore exposure, but the only thing he's ever really done for me is steal what I'd've thought was Orcus' schtick.
That said... Graz'zt has never tickled my fancy either. Maybe I'm just defective
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