Demonomicon issues?

[sad_genius]

In a way it's kind of sad that 3.5 D&D kinda requires characters like Iggwilv to be statted ...

 

[Desdichado]

In a way it's kind of sad that 3.5 D&D kinda requires characters like Iggwilv to be statted ...

How does it require that exactly?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Erik!

No, she hasn't.

The closest would be "Return of the Eight," which if I recall correctly pegs her at around 30th level.

--Erik

In one of Gary's Dangerous Jorneys novels (The Anubis Murders I think?) he mentions that Louhi is known elsewhere by the name Iggwilv.

Louhi was detailed in 1st Edition Legends & Lore with 45 Levels (10th-Cleric; 10th-Druid; 15th-Magic-User; 10th-Illusionist). That converts to about 25th in 3rd Edition, but she may have went up a few levels since then.

Certainly she would be on a par with some of the Demon Princes.

 

[BOZ]

In a way it's kind of sad that 3.5 D&D kinda requires characters like Iggwilv to be statted ...

certain DM's require it, but i suspect that most don't.

not that the 1E AD&D Dieties and Demigods had stats for uber-powerful beings or anything...

 

[sad_genius]

Ok, so, as BOZ mentioned, statting gods and super powerful beings is a grand tradition of D&D, not something new to 3.5 or D20 ... *but* in my head I have this idea of Iggwilv (and of Iuz, Vecna, Grazz't &c) which is pulled together from so many different sources as to almost create a mythological character in itself - something of that is lost when stats appear and a thing becomes "killable" as it were.

YMMV

 

[Shemeska]

I am teh n00b who never played 1e *prissy snarl*

Certainly she would be on a par with some of the Demon Princes.

That assumes that you feel that Abyssal Lords et al (or beings of that stature, some of which predate the deities)

1) should be given official stats

and

2) are fully capable of being nailed down and quantified by the same ruleset as Joe Level 1 Commoner. I feel it removes their mystique and mystery, making them just bigger monsters to fight in bigger extraplanar dungeons.

But we've had this discussion before

 

[Shemeska]

Ok, so, as BOZ mentioned, statting gods and super powerful beings is a grand tradition of D&D, not something new to 3.5 or D20 ... *but* in my head I have this idea of Iggwilv (and of Iuz, Vecna, Grazz't &c) which is pulled together from so many different sources as to almost create a mythological character in itself - something of that is lost when stats appear and a thing becomes "killable" as it were.

YMMV

1e yes. 2e not really. 3e yes seemingly because of 1e nostalgia and bitterness towards 2e's changes.

Ten bucks says any 4th edition will see the pendulum swing back to a 2e'esque way of handling such things.

My objection to firm stats for deific or equivalent beings is that it removes the sense of grandeur and mystery, they're just bigger monsters then, rather than eons old terrors and personifications of evil; creatures of myth grown larger than a stat block can do justice for.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

*but* in my head I have this idea of Iggwilv (and of Iuz, Vecna, Grazz't &c) which is pulled together from so many different sources as to almost create a mythological character in itself - something of that is lost when stats appear and a thing becomes "killable" as it were.

In other words, you're fine with it so long as there are multiple conflicting sets of stats, but as soon as there's "One True" stat, it's not fine?

Why not just treat the 3.XE stats as just another member of the body if conflicting sets of stats?

This seems like a pretty unusualy mental hangup. :/

 

[BOZ]

Ok, so, as BOZ mentioned, statting gods and super powerful beings is a grand tradition of D&D, not something new to 3.5 or D20 ... *but* in my head I have this idea of Iggwilv (and of Iuz, Vecna, Grazz't &c) which is pulled together from so many different sources as to almost create a mythological character in itself - something of that is lost when stats appear and a thing becomes "killable" as it were.

YMMV

and your thoughts sound quite a bit like the Planescape ideal that Shemeshka was mentioning.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Shem matey!

That assumes that you feel that Abyssal Lords et al (or beings of that stature, some of which predate the deities)

1) should be given official stats

I do.

...and

2) are fully capable of being nailed down and quantified by the same ruleset as Joe Level 1 Commoner.

Yes I believe they can, and in fact have.

I feel it removes their mystique and mystery, making them just bigger monsters to fight in bigger extraplanar dungeons.

Fortunately the contents of Dragon are not constrained by the limits of your imagination, or lack thereof. Which is why we are being treated to those fantastic Demonomicon articles (among many others).

But we've had this discussion before

...and now you are even bemoaning 1 page of epic material every four issues of Dragon. 5-6% of D&D gamers play in epic games, many more are high enough to benefit from epic material. Just let it go and stop being such a 'hater' for goodness sake.