Demons of the Hordes: Any Thoughts?

Mr.Black

First Post
So, what does everyone think about the non-unique demons in Fiendish Codex I? Any favorites, or ones you thought were awful? Did you find any potential errata?

Overall I found most of them to be satisfying. There are a few that may be over CR'd, but there are no equivalents to Drowned, Immoths, or Storm Elementals in this book.

I'm happy that they kept to some of the Tanar'ri demon traits, but am baffled that they left some off. Almost all the tanar'ri in the MM have a +8 racial bonus to spot and listen checks. In this book, that is totally ignored. DR changes from cold iron to DR/good beginning at the Vrock demon (CR 9) in the MM, but in the Fiendish codex it remains DR/cold iron almost until the mature Nabassu at CR 15. It's not like these are tanar'ri traits but so many of them have it that it feels weird to see them without it. Any thoughts from the designers on this would be appreciated.

A nice change is that most of the demons now have SR that equals their CR+11. I've always thought the SRs of the higher level demons (Glabrezu to Balor) were too low at CR+8. It's good to see that most of the demons can see invisible and the higher CR demons have Use Magic Device. Not that any DMs take advantage of that. C'mon people, give your Nalfeshnee an 11th level wand of Scorching Ray!

Onto the demons:

Armanite: The cavalry demon, I guess this guy is a lot like the arrow demon in that it is created for war and little else. He got a real boost from Manual of the Planes, his hp took a huge leap up. No way to see invisible or teleport, which is just terrible. Cavalry charge helps clear up any problems they had with mounted combat and charging. I think its an okay monster, but the Armanite gets really good with Fighter levels, as it has a straight path to the cheese that is Heedless Charge.

Armanite Fighter 4: Extra feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, and Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior). Str 26, Dex 12, Con 22, Wis 12, Cha 10. Charge, power attack from its AC, and the Armanite gets a +25 to hit with its lance (-1 size +1 masterwork +13 bab +8 str +4 cavalry charge). On a spirited charge it deals 6d6+75 damage (strength bonus two-hand x3 + power attack x3). Of course, its AC will be horrible, but hopefully it did a ride-by attack. Very nice and very painful. They may be the best cavalry in the game since they don't have to worry about their mount getting killed.

The only thing I only thing I found strange was the Tumble skill. Since it wears full plate, this skill doesn't see much use.
 

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I really like the new demons included.

Although not new, but "new" to this edition, the molydeus is my favorite.

The obyriths are quite interesting. I especially like the sibriex...creepy weird. I also like the fact that the obyriths are more bent on chaos than evil, and their DR/lawful reflects this.

The loumaras are interesting, too, but the two included haven't quite stirred my imagination as much as the obyriths. I do like them, though, and think with a few more in a Dragon article they might grow on me more.

Although I'm not a fan of the new stat block format, I gotta say I really like the expanded flavor text. It really shines on some of these critters; the bar-lguras and their grisly fetishes/totems is the kind of thing that probably wouldn't have appeared in the old format.

The updates to the BoVD demons are great. The goristro is truly the powerhouse of terror I wish it to be. Especially imagining the 200-foot-tall, 95 HD one listed in the Advancement paragraph. :cool:
 

Shade said:
Although not new, but "new" to this edition, the molydeus is my favorite.

I <3 me some Molydeus.

The obyriths are quite interesting. I especially like the sibriex...creepy weird. I also like the fact that the obyriths are more bent on chaos than evil, and their DR/lawful reflects this.

Interesting implications when you think about their origins. Were they created as per the Heart of Darkness legends, or were they pre-existant possibly in an earlier form that was more attuned to Chaos, and then not so much created by the Baernaloths so much as corrupted by them, infused with Evil as it expanded from its initial cradle.

Regardless, the more insectile Obyrtiths are disturbing and very, very cool.

The loumaras are interesting, too, but the two included haven't quite stirred my imagination as much as the obyriths. I do like them, though, and think with a few more in a Dragon article they might grow on me more.

By themselves, they don't make much impact on me. However the details of their origin, and the descriptions of the Dreaming Gulf are really interesting and well done. They have promise on that alone.

Although I'm not a fan of the new stat block format, I gotta say I really like the expanded flavor text. It really shines on some of these critters; the bar-lguras and their grisly fetishes/totems is the kind of thing that probably wouldn't have appeared in the old format.

The new format will take some time getting used to, and overall I'm sorta 'meh' over the whole thing, but the expanded flavor text, when well written such as in the FC:1, makes me appreciate it.


Personally my favorite though, was the Bulezau, if mostly for the seriously awesome picture that it had.
 

The stat block, IMHO, would be perfect if they had added two very easy-to-include pieces of information:

1) Instead of x hp (y HD), x hp (ydn + b Con modifier)

2) "Power Attack for -x/+y included in the above" instead of "Power Attack included in the above"

I hate having to calculate these things out in order to modify them, and it seems simply unnecessary to do so, as neither of the above would take up extra space or add visual clutter, really.
 

Shemeska said:
Interesting implications when you think about their origins. Were they created as per the Heart of Darkness legends, or were they pre-existant possibly in an earlier form that was more attuned to Chaos, and then not so much created by the Baernaloths so much as corrupted by them, infused with Evil as it expanded from its initial cradle.

Interesting indeed. :cool:

Shemeska said:
By themselves, they don't make much impact on me. However the details of their origin, and the descriptions of the Dreaming Gulf are really interesting and well done. They have promise on that alone.

Agreed. Very cool concept.

Shemeska said:
Personally my favorite though, was the Bulezau, if mostly for the seriously awesome picture that it had.

Yeah, that is wonderful. I like the new bar-lgura pic as well. :)
 

I love the format for the demon entries. I like the new stat block format, but I really like that they put in the sample encounters and lore of the creature.

The only thing that bothers me is that there were a lot of repeated demons and demon lords from books like Manual of the Planes and the Book of Vile Darkness.
 

Necessary for 3.5

Some things needed 3.5-ing and it was more profitable than a BOVD web enhancement would be. I like it though, but the Shadow demon would have been nice to see. I interpret it as: Spell-like abilities NEVER need a material or XP component in monsters, so it uses Magic Jar without the Jar. What that actually does though, I'm not sure: probably possession as in the rulebook. I got the impression that it was intended to be a way for the demon to take the targets soul, as in the fluff. How, though?
 

I was thrilled to see the repeated demons from BoVD. That is one book that never got the 3.5 update treatment (and it looks doubtful that it ever will). It also happened to contain some of the long-running classics (bar-lgura, chasme), so I find having them get the full 3.5 treatment better than simply getting more new ones.
 


cincinnati reds said:
I still have trouble figuring out why the Chasme is CR10.

Wow. The poor Chasme, what have they done to you?

They used to be at least decent in 3.0 when it had a really high AC and some decent abilities. Now it looks like they just copy and pasted the creature and added nothing to it's abilities. Sure it has quickened ray of enfeeblement, but its' hp is too low and its special ability DCs are pathetic. I think that the attack bonus is wrong: they used its grapple check for it's bab. Even the picture is bad. i think this creature is more like a CR 6 or 7 at its current state.

The Bar-lgura is looks pretty nice, and makes me think of King Louie from the Jungle Book. They have some really nice abilities, particularly invisibility to sneak up on other. Just imagine what a monkey could do with telekinesis. :D Advanced large Bar-lgura are tough customers and can challenge even high level PCs, having a path to the Elusive Target feat from Complete Warrior and the ability to use two-handed weapons.
 

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