Demons, Silence and Teleport.

[Flatulus]

In the monster manual, there are sections where monsters have Innate spellcasting, which I understand. As an example, have a look at a Marilith demon. What i am trying to figure out is the nature of some of the abilities under 'Actions', such as Teleport.My understanding of Innate spellcasting is that the creature needs the verbal, somatic and material components unless it says otherwise.However, the Teleport ability is not under Innate spellcasting but does say 'Magical'. So do they need the verbal, somatic and material components? Would they NOT be able to teleport in the area of a silence spell?Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Croesus]

I can't find anything in either the MM or the DMG that specifically addresses your question. My interpretation would be that innate spellcasting follows all the rules for casting spells, but that special abilities are NOT spells. They are mundane and magical abilities that the creature can simply activate.

For the Marilith, the stat block doesn't say "it can cast the teleport spell, limited to only a space it can see within 120 feet", it says "The marilith magically teleports, along with any equipment it is wearing or carrying, up to 120 feet to an unoccupied space it can see", which is very different from the description for the teleport spell.

 

[Flatulus]

Thanks for the reply. There are a lot of abilities under actions which are fuzzy on if they are spells or not (or treated that way). Things with saves too, so you don't know if your character has, say, advantage against spell effects, you don't know if they apply to these uncategorised 'abilities'.

It makes the abilities in this category very hard to stop or counter. not sure that is RAI. NOTHING can stop a demon teleporting? (as an example)

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I'd say that innate spell casting means you can do away with material components - it's innate, so your magical essence is the component itself. Verbal and somatic however may well still be needed. In which case Silence would impede them. Innate teleportation somehow feels odd to have a verbal component (saying a magic word implies you need the magic word to make it work - an innate ability implies that you have the magic within you and you don't need a formalised spell structure to make it work.

Hate to bring up HP but look at Dobby v Wizards apparating - wizards learn the spell (using V,S,M components); Dobby just does it. Not being a spell he doesn't need a magic word, or a magic ingredient. He keeps a S element though with the finger click.

Demons maybe should follow this pattern. They should be hard to pin down, after all. Anti magic Shell might do it (it's still magic), rather than silence.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thanks for the reply. There are a lot of abilities under actions which are fuzzy on if they are spells or not (or treated that way). Things with saves too, so you don't know if your character has, say, advantage against spell effects, you don't know if they apply to these uncategorised 'abilities'.

It makes the abilities in this category very hard to stop or counter. not sure that is RAI. NOTHING can stop a demon teleporting? (as an example)

Forcecage can stop it, if the demon fails its Cha save.

You could have custom spells or psionic abilities like Dimensional Lock that would stop teleport, too, even if it's not from a spell.

Antimagic Shell would also prevent teleportation.

I believe Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum would prevent teleportation but I'd have to double-check the spell description.

 

[dave2008]

I can't find anything in either the MM or the DMG that specifically addresses your question. My interpretation would be that innate spellcasting follows all the rules for casting spells, but that special abilities are NOT spells. They are mundane and magical abilities that the creature can simply activate.

For the Marilith, the stat block doesn't say "it can cast the teleport spell, limited to only a space it can see within 120 feet", it says "The marilith magically teleports, along with any equipment it is wearing or carrying, up to 120 feet to an unoccupied space it can see", which is very different from the description for the teleport spell.

I have the same interpretation. Typically, if an action/ability duplicates and actual spell, the action will something like "...as in the teleport spell." The Marilith's teleport ability does not. The description is fully within the action, no need to reference the PHB and no components required. It is not innate spell casting (Marilith's don't have this ability), but it is a magical ability.

 

[UnknownDyson]

Teleport in this case is a magical ability and not a spell. It does not follow the rules for innate spellcasting (which are that the caster can innately cast the spell at its lowest level unless specifically stated otherwise without the material component cost). A silence spell would not stop a marilith from teleporting because it is not a spell and does not have spell requirements, no spell slots, a marilith can continue to teleport indefinitely.

However as stated by the rules errata a spell like anti magic field would stop demonic teleportation because it states that the creature *magically* teleports.

 

[GX.Sigma]

What i am trying to figure out is the nature of some of the abilities under 'Actions', such as Teleport.
However, the Teleport ability is not under Innate spellcasting but does say 'Magical'. So do they need the verbal, somatic and material components? Would they NOT be able to teleport in the area of a silence spell?

It doesn't require any components. If it did, it would say so. The marilith's "Longsword" action doesn't require a verbal component either.

My understanding of Innate spellcasting is that the creature needs the verbal, somatic and material components unless it says otherwise.

I'd say that innate spell casting means you can do away with material components - it's innate, so your magical essence is the component itself. Verbal and somatic however may well still be needed.

The Innate Spellcasting trait works however it is written for a particular monster. For example:

"The couatl’s spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 14). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring only verbal components:"

"The glabrezu’s spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 16). The glabrezu can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:"

"The mind flayer's innate spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 15). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no components:"

 

[Flatulus]

Yep. The Innate spellcasting part is clear. It is the abilities listed under actions which are somewhat LIKE spells which I wondered about.

 

[UnknownDyson]

Think of them like a paladin's divine smite. Magical ability for certain, but not a spell.