Dependency on Character Creation Apps?

[billd91]

It's an interesting issue. 5e isn't so hard that you can't keep things up to date on a paper sheet, but a builder can make it a lot easier. So, my players largely do make use of ones out there from Hero Lab to D&D Beyond. My daughter had us all use D&D Beyond for the game she's running so she can have access to our characters. As DM, any resources she has available to her, she can share with us - so that's pretty cool.

I've been using builders for various games since I made a Champions spreadsheet on AppleWorks on my Apple IIc. THAT was a game that largely needed one.

I'm generally torn about using them too much because 1) they're convenient but 2) they aren't all very friendly about adding custom content. So while most of my players use Hero Lab for the 5e game I run, we've struggled with custom content because it is NOT easy to do.

 

[Retreater]

It's been ages since I've looked at PF2 so I'm curious, why do you need to audit the magic items on the characters?

They can have too much (or too little), which significantly changes the power level of the character. Especially if they don't have the "foundational" runes on weapons and armor, they can be severely underpowered.

 

[Retreater]

It's an interesting issue. 5e isn't so hard that you can't keep things up to date on a paper sheet, but a builder can make it a lot easier.

We didn't have as many issues when we were playing 5e - because everyone had their own books, were familiar with the system, had paper character sheets, etc.

Nowadays, I don't think I could run PF2 without full VTT integration tracking conditions, measuring movement and templates, tracking shield damage, applying resistances/ongoing damage/etc. Also, I have a friendly rules lawyer as a player who keeps me straight. I don't think I could run PF2 without that.

4E without the online stuff - that would be impossible (for me).

It feels like I'm not a real GM, like I don't understand the games I'm running. I feel like the ignorant muscle to enforce the rules systems.

 

[billd91]

We didn't have as many issues when we were playing 5e - because everyone had their own books, were familiar with the system, had paper character sheets, etc.

Nowadays, I don't think I could run PF2 without full VTT integration tracking conditions, measuring movement and templates, tracking shield damage, applying resistances/ongoing damage/etc. Also, I have a friendly rules lawyer as a player who keeps me straight. I don't think I could run PF2 without that.

4E without the online stuff - that would be impossible (for me).

It feels like I'm not a real GM, like I don't understand the games I'm running. I feel like the ignorant muscle to enforce the rules systems.

Honestly, the more complex the game and its design, the more GMs and players need help sorting things out. Subsystems are a particular bane here - whether Shadowrun with spells/deckers/riggers/cyberware or Pathfinder 2 with crafting/shield damage to keep up with - the more of those the game introduces that you have to deal with, the more you need something to help manage it.
I may find it kind of fun to design powers and heroes in Mutants and Masterminds, but that's a system I choose to put on my propeller beanie for. In the fantasy RPG context, I'm pretty much done with dealing with fussy crafting subsystems, so that's another knock against PF2 for me. And I only play Shadowrun infrequently, so I'm dependent on copying someone else's build to do it competently. I don't want to invest more time on it than I have to.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

We didn't have as many issues when we were playing 5e - because everyone had their own books, were familiar with the system, had paper character sheets, etc.

Nowadays, I don't think I could run PF2 without full VTT integration tracking conditions, measuring movement and templates, tracking shield damage, applying resistances/ongoing damage/etc. Also, I have a friendly rules lawyer as a player who keeps me straight. I don't think I could run PF2 without that.

4E without the online stuff - that would be impossible (for me).

It feels like I'm not a real GM, like I don't understand the games I'm running. I feel like the ignorant muscle to enforce the rules systems.

I think you are paying too much attention to the minutiae of the rules. I ran 3.5 without any electronic support and I will guarantee you we got something wrong every round of pretty much everything, a plus 1 here and the duration of a buff there, and conditions and it never really mattered that much. I have never closely policed character sheets, but trusted the players to build the character correctly. That is not to say I did not give help to new players and helped players to build characters.

 

[payn]

We didn't have as many issues when we were playing 5e - because everyone had their own books, were familiar with the system, had paper character sheets, etc.

Nowadays, I don't think I could run PF2 without full VTT integration tracking conditions, measuring movement and templates, tracking shield damage, applying resistances/ongoing damage/etc. Also, I have a friendly rules lawyer as a player who keeps me straight. I don't think I could run PF2 without that.

4E without the online stuff - that would be impossible (for me).

It feels like I'm not a real GM, like I don't understand the games I'm running. I feel like the ignorant muscle to enforce the rules systems.

I believe that rules application is a table wide endeavor. The base minimum is knowing how your one and only character works as a player. Though, its helpful when players can help out with rules for game play application as well. Its too much for anybody to think they have it all down by themselves.

 

[cbwjm]

They can have too much (or too little), which significantly changes the power level of the character. Especially if they don't have the "foundational" runes on weapons and armor, they can be severely underpowered.

Do you adjust their items or alter encounters afterwards to match up with the power level of the characters?

Most games of DnD I never worry what items people have, but PF2 looks like a different beast which I haven't had experience running, but if I do, this might be good to know.

 

[Retreater]

Do you adjust their items or alter encounters afterwards to match up with the power level of the characters?

Most games of DnD I never worry what items people have, but PF2 looks like a different beast which I haven't had experience running, but if I do, this might be good to know.

In 4e, I run it with below level challenges (I did try two at-level last night, and nearly had a TPK). It's probably a combination of not having enough magic items and bad tactics (not knowing v their characters).
In PF2 - they have more magic items than they should. Between that and good tactical play, they were able to skip an entire chapter of the AP and not feel underpowered. This meant they missed out on XP and treasure that would've added to their power level.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I don't have a problem with people using character managers, and I do want copies of character sheets, but demanding I manage character managers for them? That wouldn't fly.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Do you adjust their items or alter encounters afterwards to match up with the power level of the characters?

Most games of DnD I never worry what items people have, but PF2 looks like a different beast which I haven't had experience running, but if I do, this might be good to know.

It probably wouldn't matter much for the first few levels, but I think you'd have some real potential problems with characters in, say, the 8-16th level range if they didn't have appropriate weapon runes. The usually-functional encounter building tools probably wouldn't work right with those too low.

(There's some optional rules to make it moot, but you need it one way or the other).