Designing Adventures with Lethality in Mind (Kobayashi Maru)- the Poll!

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[iserith]

Would you have an adventure with random encounters, with said random encounters possibly containing monsters that would likely TPK the party if engaged?

Yes, and that's a feature of a current "zone" I'm running in a West Marches-style game which I call the Hills of Argh. This is a multiple DM-setup with around 25 players, so each DM has their own area where players can choose to go adventure.

The Hills of Argh is a solid structure I've built for running replayable games and it includes three main points of interest plus a dungeon, trails between each that the players have blazed and named, and an emphasis on exploration and combat challenges. Each day, there are 6 random encounter checks which draws on the CR 5 to 10 Hills random encounter table from Xanathar's. Since PCs of 3rd to 10th level are permitted to adventure in this area, there are a number of encounters that can take down the entire party, if only due to number of creatures alone (which is also random in many cases).

As with anything, the players know this going in and know that I will telegraph dangers sufficiently so they can make decisions about whether and how to engage. There have been several occasions in the 6 or so times that I've run this zone that the players decide they don't want to commit the time, resources, or risk to fighting particular creatures and so they've bypassed them instead. Short of being able to pop out a Leomund's tiny hut, there are no long rests in the Hills of Argh, only back in town. As a result, they really have to think about these things.

There have been no PC deaths so far, but it's been close on multiple occasions and the session before last was nearly a TPK right before the characters got back to town, a large group of veterans and berserkers who demanded wealth or blood to pass. The PCs chose blood and nearly all died to this random encounter.

 

[Stalker0]

To me it comes down to presentation. If the party goes into an area that is known to be fraught with heinous, over the top peril, than I would expect no surprise when said peril occurs.

But I would't throw such a threat if they were just doing a diplomatic mission for example, as the peril would feel more arbitrary to me at that point.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I design my adventures rarely looking to balance CR. For the key parts of the adventure where PCs are needing to go, they will generally be level appropriate. I've had a good eye to balance things without calculating the math of CR since the early 80s, so I don't really use the CR math. That being said, I also design my game world and adventures to make ecological sense in the game world. That means monsters that fit the environment and make sense for that environment live there regardless of PC level. A group of 10th level PCs may stumble upon a clan of goblins. Or a group of 3rd level PCs may find themselves in a giant clan up in the mountains. It is my philosophy that the game world is there for exploring, and doesn't cater to any meta data. It's a dangerous place, and adventures must be wary. All of the players I've had over the years know that unless their PCs are familiar with the area (in which case I'll give them ideas of what lives where like they would know as a person from that area), then when exploring a new area, they do some basic research

 

[Dausuul]

Well, I don't generally design adventures with random encounters, but I certainly do put in encounters with creatures that would smear the party in a straight-up fight, and I would not shy away from putting such encounters on a random encounter table if I made such a thing. So I voted yes.

I try to go out of my way to telegraph the danger of those encounters, though. I don't want my players agonizing over whether to engage every minor skirmish. If a threat is out of their weight class, I want them to know that going in; what they do with that information (avoid combat, figure out a clever way to restack the odds in their favor, or charge in swinging and get crushed) is up to them.

 

[andrewlichey]

Referring to the Hills of Argh post, I'd love to hear more about the structure you've built for this campaign!

 

[Blue]

I've done this - had encounters (both planned and "random") that were well above what players can handle.

I've also used various tools to make sure these need not be TPK if the players don't "want" them to be. Had other "win" conditions besides slugging it out. Telegraphed the danger of an opponent before they closed with it, had them spot things at a distance they could decline to close. Made sure there were viable ways to escape as a party they could spot. I've never forced a no-escape fight to death with an encounter I was sure was deadly if not for the most freakish of die luck.

 

[the Jester]

Absolutely. I run a fairly hardcore sandbox, and one major playstyle element of that kind of game is that there are things out there that are too dangerous for any but high level characters to attack- and that low-level characters have the option of attacking them.

 

[iserith]

Referring to the Hills of Argh post, I'd love to hear more about the structure you've built for this campaign!

As briefly as I can so as not to derail the thread:

[sblock]Essentially just three locations (Tear of the Moon Goddess, Dragon's Grave, and The Tower Inscrutable) out in an abstract wilderness area that is chiefly forested hills. There's the starting town (Brownshire). The town is 15 miles from the Tear and the Tower and 30 miles to the Grave. It starts off as trackless wilderness (difficult terrain) and the PC can hire a team of laborers to create a trail for faster travel later (no difficult terrain).

Moving about uses the travel pace, distance, and Activities While Traveling rules. There's a random encounter chart from Xanathar's for encounters while traveling and resting (6 checks per day) which can be influenced by travel tasks and whether or not the PCs are on a trail. Weather is rolled randomly with extreme heat, strong wind, and heavy rain as possibilities which further influences how things play out.

The play experience is basically intended to be: (1) Create trails to and between all POIs; (2) Find the dungeon; (3) Track and kill the apex predator (which is a young red dragon in Hills of Argh, taken right off the random encounter chart); (4) Establish/defend an outpost near the dungeon so people can both start the session there and long rest there (as opposed to starting and resting in Brownshire); (5) Delve the dungeon. Once all those things are done, the area is considered "civilized" and the outpost can be expanded into a village, town, city, etc. which increases the radius of the "safe zone" where no random encounters are rolled.

Replayability comes from repopulating creatures in the three locations and dungeon as appropriate, again by using the random encounter chart. And the changing cast of characters that explore the area - not all the players or characters are the same with each expedition.[/sblock]

That's about it, we can start another thread if more discussion is warranted.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Every TPK that ever occurred in a campaign I ran happened in a random encounter. It's made me somewhat gun-shy about using REs now.