Designing Space Battle in RPG

[Laurefindel]

I'm making a sci fi (space opera) RPG, because making RPGs is fun.

It has been a long journey, but my last roadblock and untested gameplay is about space battles. I'm hoping that exchanging on the subject it here will help me focus my thoughts and receive new ideas/criticism.

Goal: The intent is to engage all players in a space battle just as they are in ground combat, even if they are all aboard the same ship. Here's what I got so far...

The ship is the party. If there are 4 players in the party, then the ship is a party of 4. So far so good. The analogy with a D&D party doesn't map-out exactly like a sci-fi game (in a non-d20 system to booth), but the reference is known well enough for me to convey my thoughts.

In a D&D party, players usually play different classes. There are doubles in some games but even then, characters usually fill different roles. Characters on board a spaceship will play different roles, each with their own "character class". We will call these classes "departments".

Thus characters will run different departments. Maybe it's a small ship and they all are 1-person departments, or it's a massive capital ship and the players conduct an entire crew in each department. Regardless; players are in charge.

Departments are interchangeable; some PC will perform better in some department, but all could technically fill any department. The department's class features - so to speak - come with the position rather than the PC. These departments are (names subject to change)...

Helm. The helm is run by the pilot and/or captain. It doesn't really matter who physically pilots the ship; the captain gives the commands and manoeuvres. The helm is is the "fighter" of the party; several attacks, high AC, high hp (figuratively speaking). The helm is responsible for moving the ship on the battlemat.

Coms. Communications (or sensors station) is run by the first officer/communication officer. Coms is the "thief" of the party; sneaky, skillful, provides assists, situationally backstab-y.

Tacticals. Tacticals is run by the tactical officer, i guess? On a small ship it could be a fancy name for "gunner". Tacticals is the "mage" of the party; limited big flashy attacks, at-will cantrips, shielding spells, a few utility tricks, enemy debuffs.

Engineering. Run by the chief engineer, engineering is the "cleric" of the party; provides "healing", ally buffs, utility stuff.

I thought of a few more in case of 5+ players, but these are the main ones.

Important design concept: In a D&D party, everyone can attack (some do it better) or do their class-y thing instead (which usually has some kind of daily limit). In a D&D party, everyone can target different enemies, and all can be individually targetted by enemies. In a D&D party, each character have their own hp. The party is only dead when all its members are dead; the party can keep on fighting as long as one of them is still up. And so it should be with the ship.

All departments can attack (some can do it better). All departments can do their department-y thing instead (some resources are limited). Each department can be hit and lose hp individually. The ship can be crippled but is only destroyed if all departments are breached.

At the moment, I'm thinking that each ship should have a number of actions equal to players on board. If 4 characters are on a ship, that ship should have 4 actions (1 per player), and 4 departments to destroy to sink the ship. Should all character eventually gain their own ship, I want to avoid having 4 player characters and 12 more virtual characters.

This means there need to be some kind of multiplying factor for enemies; a 1 cruiser vs 1 cruiser battle should yield about the same odds regardless whether there are 1, 2, 3 or 4 players on board. If the PC split on two ships, a 2 vs 1 advantage should resonate somehow, even if the total number of players (in other words, #attacks, hp daily resources etc) is the same. That's what I'm working on atm.

Thoughts, advice, experience with other games?

 

[Umbran]

Thoughts, advice, experience with other games?

You might want to review Ashen Stars, and its take on space combat....

 

[Morrus]

In WOIN, a ship has a number of actions equal to its class or the number of PCs, whichever is higher.

Any PC can perform any action. Just because you're at the helm doesn't mean you can't run over and use the science station or fire a weapon. It's important that PCs aren't locked into roles during the combat. Don't have one player doing the movement, another firing the weapons, etc. let anybody do anything each round, just like in ground combat.

Equally important, they should be also doing things on the ship. Technical challenges; saboteurs; medical emergencies; repelling boarding actions.

 

[Laurefindel]

In WOIN, a ship has a number of actions equal to its class or the number of PCs, whichever is higher.

Any PC can perform any action. Just because you're at the helm doesn't mean you can't run over and use the science station or fire a weapon. It's important that PCs aren't locked into roles during the combat. Don't have one player doing the movement, another firing the weapons, etc. let anybody do anything each round, just like in ground combat.

Equally important, they should be also doing things on the ship. Technical challenges; saboteurs; medical emergencies; repelling boarding actions.

Notes taken.

I've read most resources and reference documents on the WOIN site. Remarkably well-thought and thorough game. Almost intimidatingly so, if I have a single criticism to make, but very inspirational.

 

[dragoner]

Thoughts, advice, experience with other games?

I look at spacecraft as NPC's mostly. One thing to think about is what style of space combat one wants, from hard sf out to space fantasy, that will give flavor. Usually some of the first things I look at are spacecraft rules, that will tell me a lot about the game.

Reading your overview, it sounds like you are doing good.

 

[Derren]

It won't work out the way you intend.

Starfinder uses a similar system but while two roles, pilot (Helm in your case) and Gunner (Tactical) get to decide important actions each round, all other rounds are just rolling the same check over and over again or do nothing as what they do is situational and the situation did not come up.

 

[Morrus]

It won't work out the way you intend.

Starfinder uses a similar system but while two roles, pilot (Helm in your case) and Gunner (Tactical) get to decide important actions each round, all other rounds are just rolling the same check over and over again or do nothing as what they do is situational and the situation did not come up.

As I mentioned above, the key is to disassociate set roles. Anybody can do anything. Fire a torpedo, scan a ship, repel a boarder, fix a blown warp core, launch a shuttle, enhance the proton emitter to reverse the polarity of the enemy’s shields, hack their computer, the list goes on.

Just don’t put people in boxes and tell them they have one action they can do. Tell them they can each do anything they want.

 

[atanakar]

Coriolis the Third Horizon has a good system that involves all the players. The ships stations are not linked to a class or a character. If the crew has unconscious or dead characters during battle the rest of the team picks up the slack by operating more stations (pop-up screens). A crew of only one or two can operate a ship. We used it and it works well.

 

[Deset Gled]

As I mentioned above, the key is to disassociate set roles. Anybody can do anything. Fire a torpedo, scan a ship, repel a boarder, fix a blown warp core, launch a shuttle, enhance the proton emitter to reverse the polarity of the enemy’s shields, hack their computer, the list goes on.

Just don’t put people in boxes and tell them they have one action they can do. Tell them they can each do anything they want.

As much as I think this has merit, completely disassociating roles goes against some of the OPs goals. As originally stated, anyone should be allowed to attack/repair/send communications, but some should be better at it than others. I respect this desire as a nod to both realism, and helping players connect to their characters by feeling like they're unique and/or special.

To this goal, I would throw these basic ideas out there (apologies in advance if any of these already exist in WOIN, I don't own a copy):

- Incomplete disassociation: Everyone can do a majority of the jobs, but not all of them. Maybe everyone picks one role they're not allowed to do, or you get a penalty when doing 2/5 roles.

- Special bonuses: Opposite of the above. Everyone can man Weapons, but only one or two players can access the Super Laser.

- Required cooperation: Variant on the above. Everyone can do any role, but can only do some with assistance. E.G. Player 1 can do Comms or Weapons any time, but can only take the Helm if Player 2 or Player 3 is in Engineering. Player 2 can do Engineering or Helm at any time, but can only do Comms if Player 3 or 4 is at the Helm. Could be complicated, but could also really encourage inter-party communication.

- Proximity rules: Everyone can do any job, but it will take time for them to switch. Helm control needs one round to switch to Comms, but two to switch to Weapons or three to switch to Engineering, etc. Inspired by Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime.

 

[Blue]

I want to cover a different aspect than others are - character creation.

Let me give you a failed example. Mechwarrior, back in the 80s or early 90s, was an RPG about the pilots of big stompy robots. But it was the same bucket or resources being used to be good in a mech and be useful outside of one. We ended up with two sorta-well rounded characters who could be of some use on the battlefield or off. And three idiot savants who were incapable of tying their own shoelaces but were pretty hot at piloting mechs.

So, either give different buckets of resources for character creation and advancement for this other mode of play, or make it overlap with the same aspects that they would use outside of a ship, in a way similar to D&D where the class structure enforces that all characters are good in combat.